Rivendell and the sense of day ending, summer ending, looking back

Hi again. On Episode 107 now, and the description of Elrond -- all hearkening to the idea of evening/nighttime.

It of course underlines Rivendell itself as an embodiment of "the end" or "the last rays" (or as in my previous post, the last Homely House east of the sea).

It is clear, reading LOTR, that Rivendell as it is in the story is all about looking back. It has no future, it is not planning a future. It is remembering Elvenhome, and it seems focused on itself as being a twilight kind of place -- the last point of Elvenhome in Middle-Earth at its sunset.

So, Question for Narnion: Has Rivendell always been this? When we read this deep-dive of LOTR, how are we supposed to understand its current past-looking, present-lingering frame? Is this a new thing? Or has Rivendell, as we experience it reading LOTR, always been a place of looking backward?

Since even Elrond's daughter, the Evenstar, is portrayed as the last glimmer of Elvendom in Middle-Earth, and she was born 2800 years ago in TA 241, it appears that Rivendell and its inhabitants were already preparing for "the end" shortly into the Third Age, if not before. Did this happen when Isildur claimed the Ring and Elrond knew that the ways of Elf and Man were sundered? Or is there more and deeper to the story?
 
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As an addendum, and maybe better for future classes, it's always interested me that Rivendell feels "silver" (evening, moonlight, Elrond's description, "end of the story") while Lothlorien feels "golden" (mallorns, greenery, daylight, golden-haired Galadriel). Silver and gold, ending and beginning, the Two Trees, moon and sun. The connections just keep coming.
 
Sorry, second addendum but maybe more immediately relevant: Rivendell, nestled in the western crooks of the Misty Mountains, never gets a sunrise. It never greets a day, it can only ever say goodbye to one.
 
Sorry, second addendum but maybe more immediately relevant: Rivendell, nestled in the western crooks of the Misty Mountains, never gets a sunrise. It never greets a day, it can only ever say goodbye to one.
Perhaps you meant "never gets a golden sunrise"; The deeps of Khazad Dûm never get a sunrise.

I think Rivendell's location was more determined by the story structure of the Hobbit, than any metaphorical relevance.

Rivendell (Imladris) was established in the Second Age after Eregion was essentially destroyed by Sauron (only ~350 years after Celeborn and Galadriel relocated from Eregion to Lothlorien). It was also the staging camp for the forces of Elves and Men of the Last Alliance prior to attacking Mordor over the Battle Plain (Dagorlad). Troops from Rivendell were sent to assist when Angmar attacked the North Kingdom. These were all actions focussed on the present, if not the future.

The sense of preparing for "the end" only seems to be seen in both Rivendell and Lothlorien during the events of the War of the Ring. This seems to have more to do with the fact that the One Ring will either be destroyed or recaptured, and the power of the Three Elven rings will be diminished or inaccessible. After that point, the only option of preservation that is left to the Elves is going to Valinor.
 
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As an addendum, and maybe better for future classes, it's always interested me that Rivendell feels "silver" (evening, moonlight, Elrond's description, "end of the story") while Lothlorien feels "golden" (mallorns, greenery, daylight, golden-haired Galadriel). Silver and gold, ending and beginning, the Two Trees, moon and sun. The connections just keep coming.
There are more connections than these: Pre-dawn light can be silvery, and late afternoon light is rose-golden in most places.
I agree with most of these connections, but I'm not really sold on the beginning and ending connections for the locations. The connections are more relevant for Galadriel (golden, beginning) and Arwen (silver, ending) but then Arwen is often likened to Luthien who is associated with evening, but also beginning (the line of the half-elven, amongst other things).
 
Hey Anthony, thanks much for the responses.
Perhaps you meant "never gets a golden sunrise"
I mean that being nestled in a valley, with tall mountains just to the east, by the time the sun can be seen in Rivendell it is way past sunrise. So the dwellers there don't get the chance to greet a day as readily as they can say goodbye to one.
I'm not really sold on the beginning and ending connections
For this, I was thinking specifically of Prof. Olsen comparing Rivendell vs. Lothlorien -- Rivendell being the last memory of Valinor on earth (looking back/ending) as opposed to Lothlorien trying to be something entirely new (a beginning/looking forward).

Re Rivendell's work in SA and TA fighting evil, your point is well taken that those events are to protect the "now." But the question is, to what end. Does Rivendell fight in order to look forward to something new? Or does it fight in order to stave off the final ending a little longer? I think it's more the latter. It's why I think Arwen is Evenstar instead of Morningstar -- it's the same star, it just depends on whether you're looking at the beginning or the end.

I agree the parallels aren't all perfect. Rivendell with its sunsets and its fall colors doesn't always "feel" silver when I read it. Lothlorien with its sadness and its "Dreamflower" remembrance don't exactly "feel" like morning. But I do think there's something of silver vs gold and moon vs sun in the two places. And from there, silver & gold lead naturally to thoughts of the Trees, etc.
 
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Hey Anthony, thanks much for the responses.

I mean that being nestled in a valley, with tall mountains just to the east, by the time the sun can be seen in Rivendell it is way past sunrise. So the dwellers there don't get the chance to greet a day as readily as they can say goodbye to one.
Sunrise doesn't occur by the clock, it occurs when the sun crosses the visible horizon which is closer and higher in Rivendell, than in Archet for example.
For this, I was thinking specifically of Prof. Olsen comparing Rivendell vs. Lothlorien -- Rivendell being the last memory of Valinor on earth (looking back/ending) as opposed to Lothlorien trying to be something entirely new (a beginning/looking forward).

Re Rivendell's work in SA and TA fighting evil, your point is well taken that those events are to protect the "now." But the question is, to what end. Does Rivendell fight in order to look forward to something new? Or does it fight in order to stave off the final ending a little longer? I think it's more the latter. It's why I think Arwen is Evenstar instead of Morningstar -- it's the same star, it just depends on whether you're looking at the beginning or the end.
Arwen has the sobriquet "Evenstar" because she is the most beautiful of the last generation of High Elves in Middle-Earth. Arwen doesn't actually have many options for High Elven mates, narrowed further by the closeness of bloodline for some of the options, calling into question whether any of her children would be considered High Elves. This is not related to her primary residence in Rivendell, nor is she called Morningstar when she's living in Lothlorien with her living grandparents.
I agree the parallels aren't all perfect. Rivendell with its sunsets and its fall colors doesn't always "feel" silver when I read it. Lothlorien with its sadness and its "Dreamflower" remembrance don't exactly "feel" like morning. But I do think there's something of silver vs gold and moon vs sun in the two places. And from there, silver & gold lead naturally to thoughts of the Trees, etc.
I am only up to Episode 64, so haven't listened to the comparisons made by Corey. I may come across as arrogant in this regard, but I sometimes find myself at odds with Corey, and he doesn't always convince me with his reasoning. I'll reserve further judgement and comment until I've listened to Episode 107.
 
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