S03E12 Script Discussion

MithLuin

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A Plot: Maedhros' parley with Sauron (Protagonist: Maedhros)
B Plot: Girdle of Melian (Protagonist: Lúthien)
C Plot: Helcaraxë [and Rising of the Moon] (Protagonist: Galadriel)
 

Haakon

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Sorry I couldn’t make it. I would like to add to the discussion though that I suggested an idea earlier that Sauron would use song in this episode and that his magical singing was defined by his ability to sing in harmony with himself, I mean singing two melodies at a time - He begins with a low drone, and then adds a higher register melody. The drone has a hypnotic quality and also decides the harmony of the whole situation, forcing everyone else who sings to follow it. The melody in the higher register can vary depending on what his goals are.
I’m not sure I’m using the proper terms here, so apologies if it sounds confusing.
 

MithLuin

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Cool! Speaking in two voices at once sounds like demonic possession, so certainly creepy and adds a weird quality to his song. We definitely included the part about Sauron using song in the parley, and he uses it to immobilize Maedhros while the trolls mow down the rest of his army.
 

Haakon

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I’m glad you liked the idea! So you think it’s possible to include it in the outline?
 

Faelivrin

Well-Known Member
Here are my extremely rough and incomplete notes.



Episode 10 or 11
allude to project of creating Trolls as an escalation of military force
reference to responding to force of Ents
don’t show their actual creation or reveal that they’re golems



Episode 12: Despair and Hope
Protagonists:
  • Fëanorians: Maedhros
  • Doriath: Lúthien (secondary Thingol)
  • Helkaraxe: Galadriel
First appearances: None
Final appearances: No named characters.
Characters:
Summary:
Theme:



Frame teaser - Estel struggles to carry Hamilcar's body back to the Dunedain camp through the snow. He is met by Elladan and Elrohir, who were out looking for him.


Act I:
Scene 1: Fëanorians discuss the offer of parley from Morgoth
Scene 2: Spiders close in on Menegroth
Scene 3: a mass funeral on the Helkaraxe
Scene 4: Thingol reaches Doriath


Act II:
Scene 5: Maedhros & Thuringwethil set up parley rules
Scene 6: a blizzard begins on the Helkaraxe
Scene 7: spiders break open the gates of Menegroth
Scene 8: Sauron receives the news from Thuringwethil


Act III:
Scene 9: Lúthien and Daeron singing
Scene 10: Thingol set on by spiders
Scene 11: blizzard is still going on the Helkaraxe
Scene 12: parley part 1


Act IV:
Scene 13: Helkaraxe: standing people up and getting moving again
Scene 14: parley part 2: Maedhros is captured
Scene 15: Melian makes the Girdle, Thingol is saved
Scene 16a: Fingolfin’s arrival in Middle-earth
Scene 16b: Moonrise in the West, and reaction montage



protagonist: Maedhros
I: Thuringwethil has just delivered her message
  • parley meeting will be with Mairon (only named “The Mouth of The King of All Arda”)
  • Sons of Fëanor discuss this privately (away from her, so she can’t see Fëanor isn’t alive)
  • Maedhros convinces brothers to go along with it
  • if it’s plausible that a Silmaril can be gained, the Oath requires them to go – have a big enough army, you can trounce them if a Silmaril is there
  • show some friction between brothers, several disagree with this whole idea
  • somebody says it’s not worth the risk, Morgoth is probably lying
  • Maglor particularly concerned for Maedhros’ safety
  • Curufin especially skeptical that a Silmaril could be involved, and is not helping plan or gather volunteers
  • the army Maedhros brings is volunteers because he knows its risky “I know he’s lying, that’s why none of you are coming with me.”
  • Maedhros sends Maglor to go find volunteers
II: delivering terms to Thuringwethil
  • Maedhros says he’ll bring “bodyguard” but no brothers
  • no clear numbers specified – Sauron doesn’t even care about numbers – he (via Thuringwethil) can afford to act very accomodating
  • Fëanorians demand no Balrogs, want to choose location (ravine in mts)
  • Fëanorians want Silmaril to be shown from great distance as assurance the parley is legit, before they get up close.
  • Thuringwethil says no, it will only be shown when you’re closer and we can see your whole army isn’t with you.
  • Fëanorians plan to keep supernumery Elves in secret, hidden in the dark
II: Thuringwethil tells Sauron the terms and no Balrogs. he smiles and says I didn’t want them anyway. he has a fancy box. Thuringwethil is concerned Maedhros is being dishonest, and Sauron says it won’t matter.
III: Sauron’s false parley
  • Sauron easily knows where the extra Elves are hiding and calls Maedhros out on breaking terms
  • Sauron has a fancy box supposedly holding Silmaril
  • Maedhros launches attack when it is clear that there won’t be a deal
  • Elven ambush is killing most Orcs and it looks like they’re winning
question: how can it plausibly look like they’re going to win when Sauron is there?
IV: Elves have killed the Orcs
  • but Sauron, left alone in the back, immediately sings binding spell upon Maedhros, freezes him
  • Trolls come down sides of ravine and wipe out all the Elves
  • Sauron makes Maedhros watch all his guys get killed
  • Sauron tosses box on the ground at his feet; it was empty.


protagonist: Galadriel (mostly hanging out with Fingolfin & Aredhel)
focus on Fingolfin’s leadership – by the end of this, they are 100% united behind him and confident in his leadership
I: Crossing the Helcaraxë pt 3 - Endurance through cold, misery, and starvation
  • row of 20+ wrapped bodies of Elves who died of starvation/exhaustion/hypothermia
  • everyone else is miserable, huddled, tired, gaunt
  • funeral, not elaborate, but it feels like they’ve done this many times before and it has become ritualistic
  • Finrod says a prayer to Ulmo asking him to convey the dead
  • bodies are tipped into the sea one by one, with their clothes on, but the living keep the blankets
  • some reference to these deaths adding to the tally of hundreds dead on the Ice, all the deaths on Fëanor’s hands
  • Turgon and Galadriel speaking in anger or desire for unspecified vengerance against Fëanor and sons
  • somebody asks: that dark spot in the east with no stars, is it mountains?
II: Crossing the Helkaraxë
  • blizzard is rolling in (from northeast)
  • Fingolfin encouraging them to keep going, just a little farther, is walking along with individual families to encourage them
  • “when was the last time we ate?” (convey that they ran out of food a while ago)
  • Galadriel also shows leadership – is less confident Fingolfin is doing it correctly, and certainly thinks she should be one of the people in charge. she goes into the front
  • endurance through hardship, but also some ray of finding hope when there seems to be none
III: Crossing the Helkaraxë
  • blizzard has seemed to go on forever, it’s been hours or days
  • people are barely able to walk into the wind and snowdrifts (over broken ground they can’t see)
  • people saying they can’t go on much longer
  • contrast Fingolfin and Galadriel’s leadership styles
    • Fingolfin is trying to stay positive, not focusing on how terrible this is
    • Galadriel thinks he is taking it too lightly, and they have to do something
    • Fingolfin says we need to just keep going (what can he do besides encourage them?)
    • Galadriel has a point: people are dropping dead and Fingolfin seems to have no plan at all
    • you don’t have a plan, why are you saying this will be OK when you have no plan to get us out alive?
    • Fingolfin: all we can do is just keep on going. the end has to be close.
    • (he knows they will all die if they stop moving)
  • Aredhel is encouraging individual families, like Fingolfin is
IV: Crossing the Helkaraxë
  • everyone is down in the snow, too exhausted to go on, huddling around their children or with their friends/relatives, weathering the storm
  • some have given up hope of survival
  • Fingolfin is almost on the point of losing hope himself
  • Fingolfin sees one star is visible in a break in the blizzard
  • Galadriel and Aredhel are huddled up with a family Fingolfin was talking to earlier
  • Fingolfin motivates everyone to get up and keep going just a little farther, shakes people one by one
  • Fingolfin: we’re almost there
  • Galadriel: how do you know?
  • Fingolfin: we have to be
  • she helps him get people to get up


protagonist: Lúthien (second: Thingol)
there are ~100-200 Shelob-caliber offspring of Ungoliante, and a few hundred more smaller giant spiders
I – gates of Menegroth on the river
  • there are lamps by the gates
  • trees on the other side with spiders and webs of darkness
  • spiders aren’t quite at the gates yet
  • Lúthien is there trying to bring hope to embattled Grey-elves: we’ve already had word that my father and his army are on their way, they will save us
  • spiders reach gates
  • spiders snuff lamps out with webs of darkness, and climb/beat on the gate
  • Elves watching through arrow slits above the gate, try shooting and it has no effects, except maybe to put out one eye of one spider
  • spiders climb up and shove many hairy, spiky legs into the arrow slits and grasp at the Elves who jump back in horror
  • somebody tries to attack a leg with an axe, and at best chops off a little spike or one minor claw
I: Thingol and army entering marches of Doriath, Thingol inviting Guest-elves in
II – gates of Menegroth
  • huge numbers of spiders cover the gates with spiderwebs and pull
  • it takes a while and it’s difficult to force them open
  • gradually the steel bars/locks/latch bend and break, making horrible nails on chalkboard sounds
  • doors are eventually pulled open (they open outward) and some spiders get inside
  • there’s a corridor with arrow slits pointed inward, and a second gate (portcullis)
  • arrows are useless against spiders
  • some people get caught, the rest flee through portcullis and shut it just barely in time
  • legs poked through portcullis
  • axes basically bounce off the spiders’ skins
  • Lúthien’s hope shifts away from Thingol to them saving themselves
III: masses of spiders pushing more and more into the hallway
  • those from behind push those in front, or crawl over them
  • Lúthien and Daeron sing together
  • they try to force the spiders back out
  • they can’t push this many spiders away all at once, but can stop them from moving forward
  • it’s a standoff
III: Thingol and army (Saeros, Mablung, etc.) travel through eaves of Doriath
  • they encounter spiders and try to fight but can’t significantly hurt any of them
  • spiders are building a web above them among the trees
  • spiders start dropping down from above
IV: Melian finishes the Girdle, repels the spiders from Doriath
  • it looks like the spiders might break the stalemate and open the portcullis
  • Melian walks out onto balcony in full view
  • her music repels them very hard and fast
  • they scream and scatter desperately
  • Girdle looks like waves of dark grey twilighty shadow/greyness, and a heat-shimmer effect of hazy distortion
  • NOT glowing or bright
  • the leading edges of the greyness are shaped shadows cast by many leaves
  • webs crumble as the first wave of the Girdle passes over them
  • montage: Girdle spreads thru forest
  • surviving Elf captives freed from the webs
  • Girdle saves Thingol & army


IV:
  • Fingolfin’s host reach Middle-earth
  • Fingolfin looks epic as he arrives
  • last burst of energy, relief, celebration
  • is it getting brighter?
  • Rising of the Moon
reaction montage
  • unfurling of banners and ringing of trumpets
  • moonlight glinting off of silver trumpet
  • Werewolves howl and go crazy (at Angband gates because there are no windows in Hell)
  • Dark Elves look up in delight
  • Fëanorians look up in surprise (they still don’t even know the parley failed)
  • Fingolfin’s states his mission: rest well friends. for soon we shall have an errand with Morgoth ... and with Fëanor


Frame tag - Estel tells the story of what happened to Halbarad, explaining how Hamilcar saved his life. He is full of regret. He tells Elladan and Elrohir that he is ready to go home.



Episode 13
spiders retreat north to Nan Dungortheb
Morgoth taunts Maedhros “your daddy can’t save you” and his reaction reveals Feanor is dead
  • Maedhros is interrogated (tortured) but we don’t show it on screen
  • Morgoth’s messengers demand terms and sons of Fëanor question if Maedhros is even alive
  • Maedhros’ brothers refuse to bargain with Morgoth
Círdan’s scouts discover the Fëanorians at Lake Mithrim in the moonlight (or wait till sunlight?)
cats try to get into Girdle and can’t
Boldog’s remnant army returns to Angband
 
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MithLuin

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Staff member
Frame

Teaser - Estel struggles to carry Hamilcar's body back to the Dunedain camp through the snow. He is met by Elladan and Elrohir, who were out looking for him.



Tag - Estel tells the story of what happened to Halbarad, explaining how Hamilcar saved his life. He is full of regret. He tells Elladan and Elrohir that he is ready to go home.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
Cool! Speaking in two voices at once sounds like demonic possession, so certainly creepy and adds a weird quality to his song. We definitely included the part about Sauron using song in the parley, and he uses it to immobilize Maedhros while the trolls mow down the rest of his army.
I don't know, not too great about having Sauron sit back.
 

Haakon

Administrator
Staff member
I think that while Sauron’s song primarily focuses on Maedhros, it could perhaps also slow the other Elves down a bit? Or something like that. After all, the sound of his song is something everyone hears.
 

Haakon

Administrator
Staff member
As a side note though, I’m not happy about this introduction of the Trolls. It’s too soon. They should be a response to the Ents and the Enemy encountered them just the other day.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
As a side note though, I’m not happy about this introduction of the Trolls. It’s too soon. They should be a response to the Ents and the Enemy encountered them just the other day.
When does Morgoth get into trying to create more dark creatures??
 

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
As a side note though, I’m not happy about this introduction of the Trolls. It’s too soon. They should be a response to the Ents and the Enemy encountered them just the other day.
That is something you would have to bring up to the hosts. As it is, Melkor encountered Ents in Season one, and again three episodes before this.
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
There are a few issues with trolls.

They need to exist before the sun rises, and that is happening in the next episode. Otherwise, their inherent weakness of turning back into stone in sunlight is something that would have come up during the R&D. So, this is literally the latest that we can introduce trolls.

As Nick pointed out, Melkor's forces encountered Ents in the War to Begin All Wars at the end of Season 1, and the audience saw them again in Season 2. So, the development of trolls can still be in response to ents. I feel that we should tease that Morgoth has something else he's working on between the defeat of Boldog's army (in episode 9) and the introduction of the trolls (in episode 12). It's a tight window, but there's no reason to suspect that the development of trolls was some long-term project that took forever, either.
 

Haakon

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Staff member
Well I guess you’re right, even though I don’t agree. The Sun argument is really strong though so that makes it easier to live with. I did try to say something to the execs in the session but my connection was bad and it was hard to get through, and they didn’t show interest in my question regarding this. I won’t push it further.
 
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Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
There are a few issues with trolls.

They need to exist before the sun rises, and that is happening in the next episode. Otherwise, their inherent weakness of turning back into stone in sunlight is something that would have come up during the R&D. So, this is literally the latest that we can introduce trolls.

As Nick pointed out, Melkor's forces encountered Ents in the War to Begin All Wars at the end of Season 1, and the audience saw them again in Season 2. So, the development of trolls can still be in response to ents. I feel that we should tease that Morgoth has something else he's working on between the defeat of Boldog's army (in episode 9) and the introduction of the trolls (in episode 12). It's a tight window, but there's no reason to suspect that the development of trolls was some long-term project that took forever, either.
So the capture of Maedhros is the unveiling of the new project, per se?
 
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