S04E03 Script Discussion

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
Ok, so I know that we supposed to do E3 tomorrow evening, but I'm afraid I'm going to have to cancel. I'm open to doing a makeup session on another day, or just going forward the following weekend and doing our best to make it up as we go. Of course, as always, someone else is welcome to host if that is something you want to do.
 

MithLuin

Well-Known Member
No worries, we can do it another time. I am not available next Saturday evening, though. So maybe the 25th? Or another day if you have a time that works for you.
 

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
Ok, in the interest of a few things, admittedly including a safer home life for yours truly :), but also to try an make use of an open evening on the Signum U Twitch schedule, I'd like to float the idea of doing a makeup session on the 24th. If anyone is planning to attend but cannot make this particular night, let me know.
 

MithLuin

Well-Known Member
Okay, I'll get myself some dinner and be ready for this!

Got a chance to re-listen to Session 4-14 today, so hopefully ready to get into Episode 3 tonight :)
 

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
Ack! I thought I'd hit "Post reply"!!!!


Here are my notes from the above discussion.

Protagonist A - Fingolfin
Protagonist B - Celeborn

Sindar Plot - Observation of Noldor -> Intent to Report Negatively to Thingol -> Meets a more humble Galadriel -> Delivering report to Thingol

Noldor Plot - Angrod delivers message of Thingol/Caranthir + Angrod Conflict -> Maedhros pushing for an immediate assault->

Frame:
Dis splits off to go to the mountain. The remaining trio enter a dwarf market at the gate of Dale. Bilbo wants to go right to meet Bard, Gandalf suggests staying in the market for a while and having a pipe. Gandalf is seeing the underlying tensions in the market. Aggressive haggling is going on. . Bilbo asks why the market is there, Balin immediately complains about tariffs and taxes. Bilbo is offended on Bard’s behalf and wants to know if Balin is saying Bard is lining his pockets. Gandalf puts that to rest immediately and reminds Balin that a good amount of the money is going right to dwarven craftsmen to rebuild the city.

Act I
Scene 1: Fingolfin and Celeborn are discussing a map of Beleriand. Fingolfin is talking about information being brought in by their scouts, represented by Celegorm, which is being enhanced by Celeborn’s knowledge of the geography. Word is brought that Angrod has returned from Doriath. Things get a bit uncomfortable, since the Feanorians were unaware of Angrod’s mission, but Celegorm does not confront Fingolfin.

Scene 2: Angrod is unsaddling a horse he brought back from Doriath, hears his name called. Turns to find Aredhel running towards him. She asks him how his trip was, and about the horse. She ultimately gets to her real goal, asking about Galadriel. Angrod says she is well, but quiet. She wanted to spend more time with our mother’s kin.

Scene 3: Galadriel is awake (not waiting for true love’s kiss to awaken her), and staring into a lit water feature in her chamber. Luthien meets a nurse/servant person coming out of the room and asks after her condition. She is told that she walks from time to time, but eats little and speaks less. Luthien enters and offers hospitable pleasantries. Galadriel doesn’t answer right away, as if it takes some time for Luthien’s words to reach her, but thanks her for her kindness. Luthien offers to get her out of the room. Some students of hers are singing that evening, if Galadriel would like to come. Galadriel feels a bit manipulated, since it would appear to be rude to turn Luthien down. She bluntly says this to Luthien, who is a bit shocked by this, being innocent (of course). Luthien doesn’t flee, though, and apologizes for the perceived offense. Galadriel is the one who is surprised now, so when Luthien offers to sit and talk with her and asks how her visit with her brother went, Galadriel just answers. It was good to see him. Luthien wants to know, then, why she did not return with him. Galadriel says that she doesn’t know if she can be who the Noldor expect her to be. Luthien offers support, saying that she doesn’t know who Galadriel is supposed to be, so perhaps Galadriel will allow Luthien to know who she IS.

Scene 4: Thingol and Mablung are playing a board game (pawns on a board in some way). Mablung expresses interest in taking an armed contingent north to meet the Noldor and support their war against the Enemy. Thingol still has questions, having met a few of the Noldor at this point. He thinks they may be good neighbors, but he is not sure they will be reliable friends. Mablung seems confused, but doesn’t question Thingol’s judgement.

Act II
Scene 5: Angrod is debriefed in council. The majority of the Noldorin lords are present, including the Feanorians. Celeborn is also present. Fingolfin has not called this meeting, but it has coalesced around Angrod’s arrival. Caranthir makes a loud remark about how eager he is to hear what tales Angrod has been telling the Dark Elven King, but he is largely ignored. Angrod gives Thingol’s message. Celeborn is immediately uncomfortable, because he knows these guys well enough to know this is not the right way to handle them. The message is paternalistic. There is a murmur of disquiet from all sides, though the Feanorians are the loudest. Caranthir asks what Angrod promised Thingol to gain such a magnanimous boon, and who granted you authority to speak for all of us. Fingolfin is now giving Maedhros a pointed look. Angrod reminds him that the mission was sanctioned by the High King of the Noldor. Caranthir leaps up angrily, and threateningly towards Angrod. Maedhros jumps forward to restrain him, and with Maglor’s help, forcibly returns him to a seat, while Aegnor pulls Angrod back. Maedhros delivers is line about the Dark Elf in his cave. Celeborn is troubled, and maybe even angered by this, but says nothing.

Scene 6:
Cirdan arrives with a large number of Falathrim in tow. Fingolfin, Finrod, and Celeborn meet him at the gate. He explains that most of his people are rebuilding their havens, but many wanted to meet and learn from our Noldorin brethren. Fingolfin and Finrod are welcoming. Especially, since Cirdan brings a lot of supplies with him. Finrod is put in charge of billeting these people, and as he set about this, Celeborn pulls Cirdan aside. He is leaving for Doriath. He explains the tensions he has witnessed and the attitude of some of the Noldor. Thingol needs to know. Cirdan expresses his private misgivings, but is much more optimistic and is certain that whatever the truth is, it will come out in time.

Scene 7:
Galadriel is at the concert she initially refused to attend. She is still introspective, but she is surprised by how different the music is from the music of the Teleri. Luthien asks if she spent much time with the Teleri. Galadriel talks wistfully of visiting her cousins on the shores of Valinor, and running and dancing them as a child. She expresses her sadness at being separated from them forever. Luthien says that the Sindar thought they would never see their friends, the Noldor, yet here Galadriel is. No one ever truly knows where their story will take them.


Act III
Scene 8
Maedhros and Fingolfin have a heart-to-heart. Fingolfin wants to make it clear that Maedhros needs to get his people under control, or Fingolfin is going to have to take action. Maedhros is certain that tensions will continue to rise between our peoples unless we focus on our common enemy. The time to strike is now. The longer we wait, the stronger Morgoth will become. Maedhros is very adamant about his case, but makes it very clear that he will abide by whatever Fingolfin decides.

Scene 9
Celeborn arrives in Doriath. He is greeted by Thingol. They have much to discuss, but they will do it later. Celeborn is walking through Menegroth and comes upon Luthien teaching a dancing class for younger children. He is surprised to find Galadriel amongst the students and is shocked by this. Galadriel is not aware that he has seen her.

Scene 10
Fingolfin speaks with Fingon about Maedhros’ proposal. Fingon is onboard, but is concerned because Maedhros is in no shape to lead an army, and he’s seen Angband, and couldn’t find a way in, how do we get an army inside? Fingolfin is somewhat surprised how many reservations Fingon has.

Scene 11
Celeborn seeks Galadriel out and speaks to her alone. After greetings are exchanged, he asks her about Menegroth and her impression of it. He mentions the dance class, she is a bit embarrassed, but admits that she is unused to the sort of dancing done here in Menegroth. She wanted to learn more about the Sindar. Celeborn expresses admiration and surprise. He points out that she seems different from when last they met. She says that maybe she isn’t the person he met. When he asks what she means, she point out that sometimes when we face the truth about ourselves, we value others more than we would.

Scene 12
Fingolfin speaks with Turgon about the Angband Now Initiative, Turgon reacts very strongly to this. He’s done the math and knows that the Noldor don’t have and may never have the strength to overcome the mountain of a fortress that is Angband. Fingolfin is immediately resistant to this idea. They’ve defeated Morgoth’s armies repeatedly, and his armies can’t even stand under the light.

Act IV
Scene 13
Fingolfin informs Finrod that he wants to work towards an assault on Angband. He needs Finrod’s support and for Finrod to garner Thingol’s support. Finrod is respectful and obedient. However, he warns Fingolfin not to repeat the mistakes of Feanor, and to look beyond what is before him. Finrod says that he will prepare to leave in the morning.


Scene 14
Celeborn gives his report to Thingol. He no longer wants to tear the Noldor down before Thingol. He states that the message was not well received. The Noldor are ignorant of our ways, and we of theirs.

Scene 15
Fingolfin calls the Noldorin lords together, including Finrod in his traveling clothes. He makes a speech echoing some of what has been said to him, but instead of calling for an assault, talks about forming a siege around Angband while they continue to explore and work with their neighbors. Afterwards, he pulls Maedhros aside to see where his loyalty is. Maedhros restates his loyalty and his willingness to operate under Fingolfin’s leadership. To avoid further conflict, he will take his brothers east. Fingolfin says that they have been told there is nothing out there. Maedhros is aware of this, and were he the Enemy, that would be the main thrust of any attempt to break the siege. He wants to be there to meet it.

Tag:

Frame: Bilbo, Balin, and Gandalf are watching the market. Bilbo doesn’t understand why folks can’t just get along. Before Balin can answer, Gandalf explains, for example, how differently the parties view their kings. We see various interactions to back this up.
 
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Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
Cirdan arrives with a large number of Falathrim in tow. Fingolfin, Finrod, and Celeborn meet him at the gate. He explains that most of his people are rebuilding their havens, but many wanted to meet and learn from our Noldorin brethren. Fingolfin and Finrod are welcoming. Especially, since Cirdan brings a lot of supplies with him. Finrod is put in charge of billeting these people, and as he set about this, Celeborn pulls Cirdan aside. He is leaving for Doriath. He explains the tensions he has witnessed and the attitude of some of the Noldor. Thingol needs to know. Cirdan expresses his private misgivings, but is much more optimistic and is certain that whatever the truth is, it will come out in time.
This is, by the way, @Haakon, the scene where I think we can incorporate your suggestion concerning Cirdan's attitude about the Noldor. It would require only a minor adjustment.
 

Haakon

Administrator
Staff member
This is, by the way, @Haakon, the scene where I think we can incorporate your suggestion concerning Cirdan's attitude about the Noldor. It would require only a minor adjustment.
Yes, I can see that it is more or less hinting at what I'm looking for.

To elaborate this a bit more: Círdan could be aware of his own emotions, and how they could perhaps cloud his judgement, and he could express this to Celeborn, being honest that his own hopes could fool him. Or we could have Celeborn reacting to Círdan's unusual naivety; Celeborn could respectfully point out that the way the limited intel points is not positive. I think this would have Círdan going through the next couple of epoisodes with mixed feelings of hope and apprehension, which is a pretty good fuel for wanting to make some serious invastigation.

This leads to a question: will there be Sindar spying, as well as the spying conducted by Sauron and Thuringwethil, during the Mereth Aderthad (and afterwards)? As pointed out elsewhere, Círdan has to have some idea of how to get info, and then go about getting it. He will be picking up the rumours, but he should be doing something more active.
Ok this has to go into some other thread I guess.


Oh great outline! I would love to see it on tv!
 
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