Script Discussion: S02E07 Spirit of Fire

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member

This is the youtube link. I will add the hangout link when it goes live.

I will not be able to run a session on the day we would do episode 8 as my wife and I are going on vacation, so we have some stuff to talk about, especially considering we might have to run a separate session for episode 2 again, and deal with the ramifications to the script outline changes. I'm thinking that we may have to revert back to weekly schedule for a few weeks, making it easier to work around the upcoming holidays without falling too far behind.
 
Sorry I missed again this week guys, but I really don't think I would trade this weekend for anything, it was very formative and special in a way few days in life are, and will probably have a pretty big impact on my life in the short to mid-term. I'm sure you guys did fine without me, as usual, and I've got a clear schedule for next weekend. Looking forward to talking about the frame!
 
I guess the romance subplot in "Bring It On 2: Bring It On Again" would probably too recognizeable to international audiences at this point, good work everybody, we dodged a bullet there for sure.
 
Wow, I repeat ideas a lot until they get incorporated. Did you know they were building Alqualondë in this episode? Lol, I did the same thing at the end of Season 1 Episode 1 with 'dancing Nessa.' Sorry guys - guess that's how I make sure things don't get forgotten/left out.
 
Sometimes repetion is necessary, especially where my brain is concerned. This is why I thought having recordings of the conversations was critical. :)
 
S2E7: Spirit of Fire, or how to plot out scandalous romantic interludes; also, did you know they're building Alqualondë right now?

Protagonists: Indis and Fëanor (they are the antagonists of each other's stories)
Supporting Cast (in order of appearance): Finwë, Nienna, Ingwë, Iminyë, Olwë, Mahtan, Rúmil, Nerdanel, the Valar, young Findis, young Fingolfin.

Story: Fëanor disapproves of Indis' involvement in his father's life, and she tries to form a relationship with her best friend's child.

Teaser: Finwë goes to Lorien to visit Míriel's body in the light of Telperion and is comforted by Nienna; he explains his grief to her. Meanwhile, Ingwë visits Tirion on official kingly business and finds the house of Finwë in a bit of disarray because one of young Fëanor's experiments has resulted in a slight...explosion when something went wrong.

Act 1
1) Ingwë confides his shock at the state of Finwë's household to his family in Valmar. Indis is saddened that the child of her friend is growing up without a mother and with such neglect. At Ingwë's suggestion, she resolves to visit Finwë and help out.

2) Upon her arrival, Finwë greets Indis and is glad for her proffered help. While out and about in town, Fëanor comes across a very lifelike statue and takes it for a real person. Bystanders laugh at his mistake, but he praises the skill of the artist.

3) Inciting Incident: While he is down at Alqualondë on kingly business, she meets Fëanor engaged in another of his home experiments (brewing mead, making gems, etc). She takes one look at his slipshod apparatus in the 'domestic' space of the house, and tells him to stop. He takes umbrage at the correction, and informs her that this is not her house. There is no mishap (this time). Establishes Fëanor's attitude as 'You're not my mom!' and he thinks she is trying to limit his creativity.

Act 2
4) The Noldor Court/ Council Hall. Disagreements have arisen between the Teleri and the Noldor over the project of building Alqualondë. The Teleri have a very laid-back working style and do not keep on task or follow plans, frustrating the Noldor workmen (including Mahtan). Olwë is focused on defending the actions of his people. While the two groups are arguing, Indis acts as 'translator', explaining the view point to both sides in terms the other can understand so they can agree on their next actions. Finwë is impressed by her diplomatic skills. Fëanor and Rúmil are watching from the gallery. Rúmil, who is recording the proceedings of the court (in Sarati) makes some verses praising Indis' resolution of the problem and mentions something about Fëanor's sour expression.

5) Finwë can't stop talking about Indis. In his moody teen angst, Fëanor decides to retaliate against Rúmil by...one-upping Rúmil's key invention with his own superior writing system, the Tengwar. Meanwhile, Finwë and Indis have a googly-eyes moment (no kissing). When Fëanor shows Finwë his new invention, Finwë doesn't get it [But we already have a writing system?], but Rúmil is impressed. Indis, conflicted over what has happened with Finwë and fearing she has betrayed Míriel, flees back home to Valmar.

6) Finwë and Fëanor travel to Valmar in pursuit of Indis. While Finwë is trying to get her to speak with him, Fëanor discusses the situation with Ingwë. He hints darkly at what has been happening, and the nature of the taboo (elves have no 'remarriage') comes out in this conversation. Ingwë, who had been sympathetic to Finwë's loss and grief, becomes decidedly less sympathetic.

7) Finwë and Indis work things out. There are declarations of love. There is 'We can never be together' angst. Ingwë wants them to stay apart. It is decided to petition the Valar to judge the situation (Nienna is involved).

Act 3
8) Fëanor has grown up. The building of Alqualondë is complete. Finwë asks Fëanor to come with him to Valmar to hear the decision of the Valar; Fëanor refuses and leaves Tirion, wandering around a wild countryside. He comes upon a quarry, and sees some curious rough statues cut from the stone. This is Nerdanel's private quarry and outdoor workshop. They meet. Cut back to the Valar and reveal the permission for Finwë and Indis to marry, contingent on Míriel's promise never to return - which she has given, blessing the marriage of her husband and best friend.

9) Wedding plans; but everyone in Tirion is somewhat scandalized that the king is getting REmarried. They don't even have that word. While it was originally planned as a big state wedding, it winds up being a smaller affair as no one really wants to take part. Ingwë and his wife Iminyë do attend and have accepted this. Fëanor threatens not to attend, but Nerdanel talks him into going - when personal appeals do not work, she gives practical considerations as to why he should be there (emphasizing his duty as prince). Nerdanel attends the wedding with her father Mahtan.

10) The wedding itself goes well, but afterwards Rúmil gives a rather questionable performance as bard - he damns Indis with faint praise. Seeing this, Fëanor follows up with a 'toast' or speech about how Míriel was a wonderful queen of the Noldor and can never be replaced. Everyone is shocked he would do such a thing (Maybe they think he is drunk? Maybe he is?).

11) After the wedding, Fëanor moves out of his father's house and becomes Mahtan's apprentice, working with a community of artists. Mahtan teaches him how to make farm implements (like a sickle). {Romantic interlude of Fëanor and Nerdanel wandering the wild countryside of Valinor}

Act 4
12) Fëanor and Nerdanel get engaged. Nerdanel asks Fëanor to invite Indis to the wedding. He does - he goes to the house and invites her in person. The household is not empty the way Fëanor remembers it from his own childhood - there are now four children living here.

13) Climax 1: At the wedding, Indis gives a tribute to her friend Míriel, singing a song about her at the beginning. Truly touched by this, Fëanor invites Indis to take the mother-of-the-groom role in the wedding. All seems well.

14) Climax 2: [Edit: Young Fingolfin does something really bratty and disruptive.] Indis explains to her children (Findis and Fingolfin, as the others are too young) what the thing with Míriel was all about, and how difficult it was for Fëanor to grow up without a mother, and how much she misses her own dear friend.

Tag: Mahtan's workshop. Nerdanel is carving a sculpture of a swan while Fëanor is working the forge. The camera focuses on Fëanor's resolute face, reflecting the firelight of the forge. The shot fades into one of Fëanor's face on a tapestry, also with firelight reflected on it. We see that Vairë is looking at the tapestry, tears streaming down her face. [Edit: Show Míriel in Mandos as well?]
 
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S2E7: Spirit of Fire, or how to plot out scandalous romantic interludes; also, did you know they're building Alqualondë right now?

Protagonists: Indis and Fëanor (they are the antagonists of each other's stories)
Supporting Cast (in order of appearance): Finwë, Nienna, Ingwë, Iminyë, Olwë, Mahtan, Rúmil, Nerdanel, the Valar, young Findis, young Fingolfin.

Story: Fëanor disapproves of Indis' involvement in his father's life, and she tries to form a relationship with her best friend's child.

Teaser: Finwë goes to Lorien to visit Míriel's body in the light of Telperion and is comforted by Nienna; he explains his grief to her. Meanwhile, Ingwë visits Tirion on official kingly business and finds the house of Finwë in a bit of disarray because one of young Fëanor's experiments has resulted in a slight...explosion when something went wrong.

Act 1
1) Ingwë confides his shock at the state of Finwë's household to his family in Valmar. Indis is saddened that the child of her friend is growing up without a mother and with such neglect. At Ingwë's suggestion, she resolves to visit Finwë and help out.

2) Upon her arrival, Finwë greets Indis and is glad for her proffered help. While out and about in town, Fëanor comes across a very lifelike statue and takes it for a real person. Bystanders laugh at his mistake, but he praises the skill of the artist.

3) Inciting Incident: While he is down at Alqualondë on kingly business, she meets Fëanor engaged in another of his home experiments (brewing mead, making gems, etc). She takes one look at his slipshod apparatus in the 'domestic' space of the house, and tells him to stop. He takes umbrage at the correction, and informs her that this is not her house. There is no mishap (this time). Establishes Fëanor's attitude as 'You're not my mom!' and he thinks she is trying to limit his creativity.

Act 2
4) The Noldor Court/ Council Hall. Disagreements have arisen between the Teleri and the Noldor over the project of building Alqualondë. The Teleri have a very laid-back working style and do not keep on task or follow plans, frustrating the Noldor workmen (including Mahtan). Olwë is focused on defending the actions of his people. While the two groups are arguing, Indis acts as 'translator', explaining the view point to both sides in terms the other can understand so they can agree on their next actions. Finwë is impressed by her diplomatic skills. Fëanor and Rúmil are watching from the gallery. Rúmil, who is recording the proceedings of the court (in Sarati) makes some verses praising Indis' resolution of the problem and mentions something about Fëanor's sour expression.

5) Finwë can't stop talking about Indis. In his moody teen angst, Fëanor decides to retaliate against Rúmil by...one-upping Rúmil's key invention with his own superior writing system, the Tengwar. Meanwhile, Finwë and Indis have a googly-eyes moment (no kissing). When Fëanor shows Finwë his new invention, Finwë doesn't get it [But we already have a writing system?], but Rúmil is impressed. Indis, conflicted over what has happened with Finwë and fearing she has betrayed Míriel, flees back home to Valmar.

6) Finwë and Fëanor travel to Valmar in pursuit of Indis. While Finwë is trying to get her to speak with him, Fëanor discusses the situation with Ingwë. He hints darkly at what has been happening, and the nature of the taboo (elves have no 'remarriage') comes out in this conversation. Ingwë, who had been sympathetic to Finwë's loss and grief, becomes decidedly less sympathetic.

7) Finwë and Indis work things out. There are declarations of love. There is 'We can never be together' angst. Ingwë wants them to stay apart. It is decided to petition the Valar to judge the situation (Nienna is involved).

Act 3
8) Fëanor has grown up. Finwë asks Fëanor to come with him to Valmar to hear the decision of the Valar; Fëanor refuses and leaves Tirion, wandering around a wild countryside. He comes upon a quarry, and sees some curious rough statues cut from the stone. This is Nerdanel's private quarry and outdoor workshop. They meet. Cut back to the Valar and reveal the permission for Finwë and Indis to marry, contingent on Míriel's promise never to return - which she has given, blessing the marriage of her husband and best friend.

9) Wedding plans; but everyone in Tirion is somewhat scandalized that the king is getting REmarried. They don't even have that word. While it was originally planned as a big state wedding, it winds up being a smaller affair as no one really wants to take part. Ingwë and his wife Iminyë do attend and have accepted this. Fëanor threatens not to attend, but Nerdanel talks him into going - when personal appeals do not work, she gives practical considerations as to why he should be there (emphasizing his duty as prince). Nerdanel attends the wedding with her father Mahtan.

10) The wedding itself goes well, but afterwards Rúmil gives a rather questionable performance as bard - he damns Indis with faint praise. Seeing this, Fëanor follows up with a 'toast' or speech about how Míriel was a wonderful queen of the Noldor and can never be replaced. Everyone is shocked he would do such a thing (Maybe they think he is drunk? Maybe he is?).

11) After the wedding, Fëanor moves out of his father's house and becomes Mahtan's apprentice, working with a community of artists. Mahtan teaches him how to make farm implements (like a sickle). {Romantic interlude of Fëanor and Nerdanel wandering the wild countryside of Valinor}

Act 4
12) Fëanor and Nerdanel get engaged. Nerdanel asks Fëanor to invite Indis to the wedding. He does - he goes to the house and invites her in person. The household is not empty the way Fëanor remembers it from his own childhood - there are now four children living here.

13) Climax 1: At the wedding, Indis gives a tribute to her friend Míriel, singing a song about her at the beginning. Truly touched by this, Fëanor invites Indis to take the mother-of-the-groom role in the wedding. All seems well.

14) Climax 2: Indis explains to her children (Findis and Fingolfin, as the others are too young) what that was all about, and how difficult it was for Fëanor to grow up without a mother, and how much she misses her own dear friend.

TAG: ??? I forget...was 14 the tag? Oh well, I'm missing something and will come back to this.

Excellent. And the tag was a scene that the hosts described, but I forgot to discuss:

We see Feanor and Nerdanel at work on two different projects. Nerdanel is carving a sculpture of a swan while Fëanor is working the forge. The camera focuses on Fëanor's resolute face, reflecting the firelight of the forge. The shot fades into one of Fëanor's face on a tapestry, also with firelight reflected on it. We see that Vairë is looking at the tapestry, tears streaming down her face.

And roll credits.
 
Ah, that's right! I remembered at the time we were discussing, but forgot while writing up the outline. Thanks for that :)

Should it be Míriel looking at the tapestry?
 
Well, given that we've established that where the tapestries are kept and where the dead are kept aren't quite the same thing, I don't think we'd want that?
 
There can be tapestries everywhere ;) No, I see your point. We have tapestries in a courtyard accessible to the living. We have Vairë's workroom, accessible to the Valar, but not elves. And we have the halls of the dead, accessible only to Námo (and Vairë?), but not anyone else....and almost never shown on screen in this show. We can't say 'never', because Lúthien will be one of the dead when she sings for Námo to get dead!Beren back, and that will have to happen 'in Mandos' somewhere. The tapestries are meant to line the halls of Mandos, eventually. So, yes, we *could* see Míriel's spirit looking at a tapestry....if we are comfortable showing the spirit of a dead elf. If not, we shouldn't do that. But thematically, Míriel has been haunting this entire episode, and the conflict between Fëanor and Indis is over her, in the end. So, a chance to show a glimpse of her seemed appropriate.
 
You could have the best of both worlds with the tapestry scene. You have Vaire looking at and weeping as she beholds the tapestry and the camera moves toward the tapestry which shows some of the events that are about to happen (in soft focus so there is no clear image) and then the camera stops at one image: that of Miriel in the Halls of Mandos head bowed in grief.
 
There is still a question of how the Valar get involved. We think we want Indis involved in petitioning them, but there was some handwaving there (#7 in the outline).
 
Ok. So the video is all edited, but it's still rendering. I hope to be able to post the last two segments throughout the day, as my wife and I will be on vacation starting tomorrow and will be gone until Sunday.
 
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