Script Discussion S04E13 Finale!

It’s crucial that they don’t use the name until they know enough about him to fell it is a person relevant to talk about. We said that Annael (or maybe Rhogrin) was going to deliver that information after his captivity. Before that, I would like zero use of the name.
 
The way the discussion went last session, it seems pretty clear that they hear the name "Sauron" in E09 from Gothmog. I don't think they know who or what he is or that he can shapeshift, though.
I think the hosts wanted Edhellos to tell Angrod about her time in Angband before a Balrog kills her.
 
I think the hosts wanted Edhellos to tell Angrod about her time in Angband before a Balrog kills her.


That did come up briefly to give some continuity to Narsil. The need for that was eliminated when it was decided not to have Narsil's manufacture specifically in opposition to Sauron. As I was trying to communicate at the time, the longer Edhellos is lucid, more more difficult it is to believe.
 
That did come up briefly to give some continuity to Narsil. The need for that was eliminated when it was decided not to have Narsil's manufacture specifically in opposition to Sauron. As I was trying to communicate at the time, the longer Edhellos is lucid, more more difficult it is to believe.
I thought what they wanted was for Edhellos to tell Angrod about her captivity, Maedhros to share the story with Telchar, and Telchar make Narsil as a sword generally intended for breaking bonds.
 
That did come up briefly to give some continuity to Narsil. The need for that was eliminated when it was decided not to have Narsil's manufacture specifically in opposition to Sauron. As I was trying to communicate at the time, the longer Edhellos is lucid, more more difficult it is to believe.

Yes that was my impression. So she can’t explain about Sauron. She could mention him, but I would prefer if she didn’t say anything particularly coherent. The risk is we end up having to create a revenge story for Angrod, so he not only has to bear a grudge against Gothmog, but also want to kill Sauron. It would lead to a mess.
 
I thought what they wanted was for Edhellos to tell Angrod about her captivity, Maedhros to share the story with Telchar, and Telchar make Narsil as a sword generally intended for breaking bonds.

That seems to me a conflation of the story at various stages in its evolution. There is no reason not to specify Sauron in the making of Narsil if they have all of that information.
 
That seems to me a conflation of the story at various stages in its evolution. There is no reason not to specify Sauron in the making of Narsil if they have all of that information.
Yes, Narsil isn't specifically intended for Sauron, but, whether they figure it out from Edhellos or from Gothmog, the Elves would have some idea who Sauron is and what he could do.

I'll relisten to the podcast before I rewrite Episode 9 again, and if I need to change Episode 13 based on what I change in Episode 9, I will.
 
Yes, Narsil isn't specifically intended for Sauron, but, whether they figure it out from Edhellos or from Gothmog, the Elves would have some idea who Sauron is and what he could do.

I'll relisten to the podcast before I rewrite Episode 9 again, and if I need to change Episode 13 based on what I change in Episode 9, I will.

I don't see why they would need to know any of that. All they need to know is that she was made captive and traumatized by her experience.
 
As of right now, there is a single mention of Sauron in the Episode 13 script. While I am not opposed to use of Sauron's name (as stated, they likely would have heard it from Gothmog when he kills Edhellos), I do think this particular usage isn't appropriate.

FINGON: It hath disappeared or flown ... or shifted. Sauron could –​
Celegorm dismounts and kneels down to look at the tracks. Fingon sits on horseback just beside him.
CELEGORM: - change his form, I know. But even that would leave some trace.​

Here is what is weird about this. Every single Vala and Maia in Valinor can change their shape. These are two elves of Valinor having a conversation. If they are going to reference shape-shifting, their go-to frame of reference is likely to be Yavanna or something. They have known Melkor in both his 'fair' form and his 'tyrant of Angband' form. So, while it's true that Morgoth can't change his shape any more, the elves don't even know that, necessarily, and would still think of him as a shape-shifter. The idea that Celegorm would reply to a 'Sauron could...' prompt as if there were an obvious unique-to-Sauron ending to that sentence just seems odd.

Sauron can change his shape because he's a Maia. We're a bit early to be speculating that the creature they are following might be a Maia. They're about to get there...the lieutenant's death is the major clue. But for now, they should think they are tracking a beast. And beasts don't shape-shift.

I am fine with them being confused that the creature they are tracking vanished without a trace. I just don't think they should be speculating that it shape-shifted. They haven't seen the creature at all - all they know about it is the destruction it left in the fort and the track it left in its wake. So, they know it's large and violent, but...not even what sort of creature it could be. Why would 'shape-shifting' be the next guess?

FINGON: It hath disappeared or flown. Surely something so large cannot simply vanish.​
Celegorm dismounts and kneels down to look at the tracks. Fingon sits on horseback just beside him.
CELEGORM: But even if it were born away by wingéd creatures, that would leave some trace.​
My suggestion (above) keeps their speculation in the realm of beasts.
 
Well, it's not like it's a requirement for script writing that you have personal experience with being asked to be in someone's wedding or the best way to use archers to take out a dragon in a canyon.
 
Also, can I just say that I'm *really glad* that we can just double underline something and say, hey, this dialogue is in Quenya? Because I would hate to have to translate all of it while we're still in rough draft mode with these scripts!

But I can translate one line....

Celegorm and Fingon command the archers in Quenya, saying "Now!"

There are two choices for that.

One is (which means "now")

The other is silumë (which means "at this time")

(Both are Lord of the Rings-style Quenya)

Either is a better choice than a fully articulated wordy "release arrows" in Neo-Sindarin from the LotR films. ;)
 
Back
Top