Script Discussion S05E01

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
It would also make sense to have Finrod meet Men at the beginning of this episode to make sure there's room to include these reactions.

If we go back too far in time telling the story of the House of Beor, there's not going to be much Season 5 material we can cover in parallel with it. Because this season is so full, I think we need to cover as much as we can in Episode 1.
The story of Bëor and his house are S05 material, so taking our time with them helps the audience understand the stakes. This is literally the Change coming to Beleriand, and we shouldn't rush it.
 

Rhiannon

Well-Known Member
The story of Bëor and his house are S05 material, so taking our time with them helps the audience understand the stakes. This is literally the Change coming to Beleriand, and we shouldn't rush it.
Yes, but this season is about the relationships and differing viewpoints between Men and Elves, which will be best shown in their encounters with one another. I'm not saying we should spend no time establishing the characters and culture of the House of Beor before they meet Finrod, but we shouldn't wait the entire episode before having them meet and push the reactions of everyone to the arrival of Men back to Episode 2.
 

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
Yes, but this season is about the relationships and differing viewpoints between Men and Elves, which will be best shown in their encounters with one another. I'm not saying we should spend no time establishing the characters and culture of the House of Beor before they meet Finrod, but we shouldn't wait the entire episode before having them meet and push the reactions of everyone to the arrival of Men back to Episode 2.
Pushing it back to Episode 2 allows for those reactions to be part of a coherent plot, rather than just a string of disconnected scenes. And showing the human viewpoint isn't necessarily best done through their interactions with the Elves, because people don't really represent themselves accurately in their dealings with others.

Seeing them struggle on their own will give us a clear contrast between their life before contact with the Noldor and their life after.

Taking our time with the season premier will pay off moving forward. There will be time for compact storytelling moving forward. But the introduction of our main theme for the season really isn't that.
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
Proposed Episode 1 Outline:

Based on our first script discussion, we have come up with the following outline. We've left placeholders for the Frame, and certainly will consider making improvements - please let us know what you think! Thank you to everyone who contributed tonight (or this morning, as the case may be) :)
Google Doc: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fBt80H6clvYpn0RcQsNp_KZA79HmYtzpoEvIIOYfktE/edit?ts=5f79dc34

SilmFilm Season 5, Episode 1

Central conflict: We see a lot of characters consider their goal/purpose in this episode....and the low point comes when Finrod tells Bëor that the way to Valinor is shut, and the light in the West (the Two Trees) has died.

A-Plot: Bëor’s people are searching for the light in the West
Protagonist: Bëor

B-Plot: Aredhel is concerned about Turgon abandoning his purpose in Gondolin
POV character: Aredhel

Episode Outline
Teaser: Frame

Act I
Scene 1: Frame
Scene 2: Bëor wakes up. He walks through his camp, greeting people, making sure they are all ready to move out. He finds young Adanel and invites her to come with him, to gather some herbs that they need to replenish before moving to higher elevation. As they travel through the foothills, he teaches her what they use the plants for, and tells her of the light in the west that they will find on the other side of these mountains.
Scene 3: Finrod is hunting with Maedhros and Maglor. They are talking about the Long Peace. Finrod waxes poetical about Nargothrond. The Fëanoreans are feeling short on allies - the dwarves supply things, but won’t join the siege. Finrod defends his choices, and explains (gently) why the Fëanoreans may be short on allies.
Scene 4: Turgon gives a speech in Gondolin. Aredhel listens, displeased. There Turgon goes, talking about how great everything is here in Gondolin, but what about his goal to preserve the elves here For a Purpose? Has he forgotten his purpose? Realizing that Turgon is never going to do what Ulmo told him to do, Aredhel voices to Idril that she will have to take responsibility for the Noldor of Beleriand, since Ulmo will not.

Act II
Scene 5: Bëor’s people cross the mountains into Beleriand. They sing a call-and-response walking song about their search for the light in the west. They react to arriving in Beleriand - this is a brand new place they've never seen before. Ossiriand is beautiful! Scouts report back to Bëor what they have seen of the land.
Scene 6: Aredhel travels the plain of Tumladen, looking up disconsolate at the Encircling Mountains. She meets up with Pengolod (son of Penlod?) in the library, taking off her cloak. Pengolod is talking about his latest book, and refers to Gondolin as the greatest fortress in Beleriand. Aredhel looks doubtful, and points out that he has not been outside Gondolin.
Scene 7: Bëor’s people have camped in Ossiriand. Bëor is playing a harp. His people are happy, celebratory. Bëor falls asleep by the fire, listening to the sounds of his joyful family. Finrod arrives in Bëor’s camp. Everyone has gone to sleep in their tents and bedrolls. He picks up a harp while they are sleeping. The Men awake to his song, and see this Vala among them! He reveals he is a Calaquendi (in Sindarin).
Scene 8: Villains - Sauron is working on something in a forge. He then presents this item to Morgoth in his throne room. He passes Gothmog who is just leaving; they don’t like one another. Sauron presents Grond to Morgoth. Morgoth tells Sauron that Men have arrived in Beleriand, and that they should be easy to control, as they have already fallen to him. Sauron suggests some things he can do, if they are that vulnerable.

Act III

Scene 9: Finrod among the Men. He has been here awhile. He understands their language now, and speaks it to them. Bëor explains why they left the East. Finrod warns them about Morgoth in the north, and invites them to come with him to Nargothrond, as the elves came from Cuivienen to Valinor. It’s one choice of several.
Scene 10: Maedhros and Maglor visit Angrod and Aegnor. Maedhros is not impressed with the wooden fortifications. He shares the news of the arrival of Men. Angrod, Aegnor, and Maedhros discuss the potential threat of the Second-born. Morgoth told them they would be usurped by them! But Morgoth lies. The Valar did not speak of the Second-born, though - what were they hiding?
Scene 11: Bëor explains their purpose, and asks for Finrod’s help in reaching the west. Finrod gently lets him down, explaining that there is no passage west, and that the light there has died. Bëor is crestfallen. The sun sets in the west.
Scene 12: Aredhel confronts Turgon under the image of the trees about his changed vision. Turgon defends himself. Aredhel tells him that if he has forgotten the Noldor in Beleriand, she has not, and if he will not think to the future and how the people of Gondolin can help them, then she will.

Act IV
Scene 13: Maedhros and Maglor bring the news of the arrival of Men to Fingolfin and Fingon. Maedhros shares his possible concern about the ‘usurpers,’ and Fingon volunteers to keep an eye on the situation in East Beleriand.
Scene 14: Aredhel tells Turgon she wants to leave Gondolin. (Scene from the book)
Scene 15: Bëor’s people are despondent. Their quest has failed! Bëor inspires them - no, the quest has not failed. The sun has brought us here, and the light of the Two Trees is here in Finrod. They will follow that light to Nargothrond. Bëor accepts Finrod’s invitation.
Scene 16: Frame
Tag:
Arrival in Nargothrond. Bëor and his clan arrive in Nargothrond. They are in awe of what they see. Here are elves who have seen the light of Valinor! Look at their culture. The House of Bëor has found the object of their quest.
 

Haakon

Administrator
Staff member
Great outline, good job, guys!

Bëor’s people cross the mountains into Beleriand. They sing a call-and-response walking song about their search for the light in the west. They react to arriving in Beleriand - this is a brand new place they've never seen before. Ossiriand is beautiful! Scouts report back to Bëor what they have seen of the land.
This is a small detail, but when you cross mountains using a pass like this, you get a really nice view from the top and can see pretty far. Based on what I've gathered about the height of the Ered Luin, Bëor should be able to see as far as 125 miles (well, at least, actually, probably more) into Beleriand (if the pass is quite high up, that is, 3000 meters/5000 feet, roughly). What he sees depends on where they enter of course - is that clear? If they pass close to the Dwarf-Road, they would see pretty far into Estolad - but perhaps that's not logical. Maybe they're closer to Thalos, or even further to the South? Maybe they can see Amon Ereb on the far side of Gelion? The further south they enter, the likelier it is that they just see Ossiriand. But in any case - I think Bëor sees the lay of the land himself, while the scouts would report on ways to descend into the forest, wildlife and such things.
Alternatively, they don't really cross over a high pass, but lower down. In that case, it would make sense to rely more on the scout reports.... But I think that, certainly visually, but also from a storytelling perspective, it's more effective if they enter through a high pass.
 
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Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
Hard to not come up with a great outline after such a fun session :D I really enjoyed it.

Also, thanks to the session being streamed on the Signum University Twitch account, the Script Discussions are now (like the TolkienProfessor podcast and other Mythgard content) available right after they have been broadcast! https://www.twitch.tv/signumu/videos?filter=archives
I'm glad you had a good time!

Here's a link to the individual broadcast: http://www.twitch.tv/signumu/v/760988758?sr=a&t=10s
 

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
Great outline, good job, guys!



This is a small detail, but when you cross mountains using a pass like this, you get a really nice view from the top and can see pretty far. Based on what I've gathered about the height of the Ered Luin, Bëor should be able to see as far as 125 miles (well, at least, actually, probably more) into Beleriand (if the pass is quite high up, that is, 3000 meters/5000 feet, roughly). What he sees depends on where they enter of course - is that clear? If they pass close to the Dwarf-Road, they would see pretty far into Estolad - but perhaps that's not logical. Maybe they're closer to Thalos, or even further to the South? Maybe they can see Amon Ereb on the far side of Gelion? The further south they enter, the likelier it is that they just see Ossiriand. But in any case - I think Bëor sees the lay of the land himself, while the scouts would report on ways to descend into the forest, wildlife and such things.
Alternatively, they don't really cross over a high pass, but lower down. In that case, it would make sense to rely more on the scout reports.... But I think that, certainly visually, but also from a storytelling perspective, it's more effective if they enter through a high pass.

Yeah, I do think that's what we were imagining even if we didn't articulate. it. Thanks for drawing attention to that.
 

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
Oh, and in addition, I'm currently processing the recording from last night in hopes of ripping the audio. I probably won't be able to work on it until tonight though.
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
I definitely support sweeping views of the land from the high pass! I mostly put scouts in that scene to give it some dialogue and to not make Bëor look careless, but the focus is definitely on them in the mountains, looking out.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
I definitely support sweeping views of the land from the high pass! I mostly put scouts in that scene to give it some dialogue and to not make Bëor look careless, but the focus is definitely on them in the mountains, looking out.
The Lord of the Rings films did this a number of times, like in The Two Towers when Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli are pursuing the Uruk-Hai through Rohan and the camera moves to show the landscape they're crossing.
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
Alright, let me try to re-write that:

Scene 5: Bëor’s people cross the mountains into Beleriand. They sing a call-and-response walking song about their search for the light in the west. As they crest the pass, all of East Beleriand opens before them. They react to this sight, eager to arrive in Beleriand as they descend from the pass - this is a brand new place they've never seen before. Ossiriand is beautiful! Scouts report back to Bëor what they have seen of the land ahead of them.
 
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MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
I have been giving some thought to Act 1, Scene 2. One concern I have is that we do not want the viewers to be asking certain questions about Bëor, so we do have to handle his interaction with the young Adanel very carefully.

Here's my dilemma: Bëor, a patriarch leader of this group dedicated to their mission to find the light in the west, visits a family (not his own family) and takes the 4-year-old daughter off into the woods to gather herbs. Anyone who has ever attended any child safety training will have a lot of red flags jump up at that scenario - why is he trying to get this child alone? Does the child's mother feel obligated to listen to him because he's in charge, or trust him because he's the leader? Is this some sort of cult? Is Adanel about to become the victim of child sexual assault?

Obviously, I know that's not what is going on here! And it's quite possible that the thought that something like that could happen may not even occur to Bëor - he's a decent person, and would never do such a thing. I am not saying that Bëor would be eager/keen to avoid the appearance of wrong-doing in this scenario - he's not thinking about that at all. But...I think this will occur to the viewer, and so it's up to us to engineer the scene so that a minimum of red flags overshadow the introduction of Bëor.

In other words, I like the scene, and think it's good, but don't want even a small percentage of the viewers to be questioning what is going on between Bëor and Adanel, and think it's up to us to steer this scene far away from that direction. Bëor's people can remain oblivious that this is even an issue ;).



The main rule of supervising children (not your own children, but school children, church groups, scouts, etc) is to never be alone with a child one-on-one. So, I think it is important that Bëor either bring another teen/adult along on this outing, or at the very least have there be multiple children in the group. He can have a one-on-one chat with Adanel, as the others gather plants nearby. I think that context will be less lonely/isolating, and help to cement the group relying on one another. Bëor's own grandson Boron would be a teen at this time, and can join this little trip.

The second question is why Bëor is taking a child care role in this situation. Anyone who is 'pushy' about getting time one on one with your kids is suspect to a parent - what are this person's intentions? There is nothing wrong with enjoying being around kids, but you generally make sure you have the parents' okay before taking them off somewhere else. So, we should make sure Bëor has explicit permission from Adanel's mother, and it should be clear that Bëor's "let's go off into the woods!" routine is meant to get the kids out from underfoot as the camp is packed up. As long as we give him a reason to be spending time with the kids and show that he respects the parents enough to ask them first, we should be okay here.

Adanel is only about 4 years old. She doesn't know very much yet, and it makes sense that Bëor would be explaining things to her. If there are other, older, children on the foraging trip, they can work independently - they know what to look for and what to gather. To put the focus on her right away, she can want to join the older kids and be asking her mom to go along on the trip. Someone can say she's too young, just a baby, and Bëor steps in to invite her, if it's okay with her mother. While that starts as just a young kid wanting to be part of what the older kids are doing, we can then transition that into young Adanel being eager to learn, and very attentive to everything that Bëor is teaching her. This can be the beginning of a teacher-pupil relationship between them, which will continue in Episode 2.
 

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
I have been giving some thought to Act 1, Scene 2. One concern I have is that we do not want the viewers to be asking certain questions about Bëor, so we do have to handle his interaction with the young Adanel very carefully.

Here's my dilemma: Bëor, a patriarch leader of this group dedicated to their mission to find the light in the west, visits a family (not his own family) and takes the 4-year-old daughter off into the woods to gather herbs. Anyone who has ever attended any child safety training will have a lot of red flags jump up at that scenario - why is he trying to get this child alone? Does the child's mother feel obligated to listen to him because he's in charge, or trust him because he's the leader? Is this some sort of cult? Is Adanel about to become the victim of child sexual assault?

Obviously, I know that's not what is going on here! And it's quite possible that the thought that something like that could happen may not even occur to Bëor - he's a decent person, and would never do such a thing. I am not saying that Bëor would be eager/keen to avoid the appearance of wrong-doing in this scenario - he's not thinking about that at all. But...I think this will occur to the viewer, and so it's up to us to engineer the scene so that a minimum of red flags overshadow the introduction of Bëor.

In other words, I like the scene, and think it's good, but don't want even a small percentage of the viewers to be questioning what is going on between Bëor and Adanel, and think it's up to us to steer this scene far away from that direction. Bëor's people can remain oblivious that this is even an issue ;).



The main rule of supervising children (not your own children, but school children, church groups, scouts, etc) is to never be alone with a child one-on-one. So, I think it is important that Bëor either bring another teen/adult along on this outing, or at the very least have there be multiple children in the group. He can have a one-on-one chat with Adanel, as the others gather plants nearby. I think that context will be less lonely/isolating, and help to cement the group relying on one another. Bëor's own grandson Boron would be a teen at this time, and can join this little trip.

The second question is why Bëor is taking a child care role in this situation. Anyone who is 'pushy' about getting time one on one with your kids is suspect to a parent - what are this person's intentions? There is nothing wrong with enjoying being around kids, but you generally make sure you have the parents' okay before taking them off somewhere else. So, we should make sure Bëor has explicit permission from Adanel's mother, and it should be clear that Bëor's "let's go off into the woods!" routine is meant to get the kids out from underfoot as the camp is packed up. As long as we give him a reason to be spending time with the kids and show that he respects the parents enough to ask them first, we should be okay here.

Adanel is only about 4 years old. She doesn't know very much yet, and it makes sense that Bëor would be explaining things to her. If there are other, older, children on the foraging trip, they can work independently - they know what to look for and what to gather. To put the focus on her right away, she can want to join the older kids and be asking her mom to go along on the trip. Someone can say she's too young, just a baby, and Bëor steps in to invite her, if it's okay with her mother. While that starts as just a young kid wanting to be part of what the older kids are doing, we can then transition that into young Adanel being eager to learn, and very attentive to everything that Bëor is teaching her. This can be the beginning of a teacher-pupil relationship between them, which will continue in Episode 2.
I think this an excellent adjustment. I think when I was envisioning this scene, Adanel was Bëor's grandchild, at least in my head, which would make it less weird. Making it a group activity certainly avoids the weirdness as well.
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
I would prefer to establish that Adanel's family is not direct descendants of Bëor. Their clan is Bëor's family, yes, but also some non-related families. This will give some peace of mind about who they are marrying in Nargothrond - there are non-first-cousin options. Barahir will be a descendant of Bëor; his wife Emeldir will be the granddaughter of Adanel. So, all tidy there! (Not that there's anything awful about marrying your 3rd cousin, but still, a little genetic diversity in the founding population can't hurt.)
 
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Rhiannon

Well-Known Member
I wrote a lot of this on my phone while driving, so it's probably still full of typos, but here it is, the first script for Season 5.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/12kfAEMt8nBcvu1oBJKjh4fl4KzLhx55wPq6vRdEISG4/edit?usp=sharing
Feel free to make comments if you have suggestions for improvements or notice errors.

Changes I made from the outline and justification for them:
  • Aredhel's first scene begins with her hunting in the mountains because I thought that would be a good way to establish her character. She doesn't speak with Idril because I wanted her concerns about Turgon to be conveyed indirectly and mostly nonverbally at that point in the episode.
  • Although her confrontation with Turgon in Act III begins under Turgon's trees, most of it takes place outside Gondolin because I wanted Aredhel to be talking about what is beyond them. Also, I plan to have Turgon return to that spot at the end of the season.
  • Anything other changes I did not think significant enough to mention. Please let me know as soon as possible if there is a problem.
 

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Alcarlótë

Active Member
I wrote a lot of this on my phone while driving, so it's probably still full of typos, but here it is, the first script for Season 5.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/12kfAEMt8nBcvu1oBJKjh4fl4KzLhx55wPq6vRdEISG4/edit?usp=sharing
Feel free to make comments if you have suggestions for improvements or notice errors.

Changes I made from the outline and justification for them:
  • Aredhel's first scene begins with her hunting in the mountains because I thought that would be a good way to establish her character. She doesn't speak with Idril because I wanted her concerns about Turgon to be conveyed indirectly and mostly nonverbally at that point in the episode.
  • Although her confrontation with Turgon in Act III begins under Turgon's trees, most of it takes place outside Gondolin because I wanted Aredhel to be talking about what is beyond them. Also, I plan to have Turgon return to that spot at the end of the season.
  • Anything other changes I did not think significant enough to mention. Please let me know as soon as possible if there is a problem.
I really liked the script! You're doing great work, and you're doing it very well :D
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
Thank you for writing and posting the episode 1 script, Rhiannon!

Any general comments about the script may be left in this thread here.

This is a collaborative project, and writers need feedback! Please use this document to suggest any specific edits to the script, or to make any comments about particular scenes:
There are two ways to make suggestions in a Google Doc. You may highlight a bit of text, and then hit the "+" symbol in the right margin. This will allow you to add a comment. That opens a conversation, which others may reply to. It's a good way to raise questions or concerns about what is happening in a scene, or what the implications might be.

The other option is to make a "suggested edit". Perhaps you see a typo, or a line of dialogue that could be worded differently. You can "edit" this, just as you would in your own document. Anything you delete will still be visible, but now with strikethrough text (like so). And anything you type will show up in a different color, not black. So, it will be very clear to others that a suggested edit has been made. If you change your mind, you have the opportunity to delete your suggested edit in the right margin; simply click the 'x' on the box that shows your suggestion. Only the scriptwriter has the ability to accept suggested edits and incorporate them into the actual document, by clicking the check sign on the box.


We will be discussing Episode 1 on next Thursday's podcast, so it would be helpful to the scriptwriter if any comments or suggestions could be made by Sunday at the latest. Please give Rhiannon some feedback, but also give her some time to make edits.
 
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