Script Discussion S05E12

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According to the book, Luthien is intercepted by Celegorm, Curufin, and Huan on the western eaves of Doriath and taken from there to Nargothrond. Of course this could be moved to Brethil if we wanted to but I'm not sure how much Luthien would want to make a pit stop in Brethil to talk to Emeldir if her intent is to go to Tol-in-Gaurhoth asap.
I think there is the potential for her to be aided by those in Brethil after escaping from Celegorm and Curufin. To go from seeing the cruelty of the people she is from to gaining aid from the people she is binding herself to could be an interesting note. But I agree, it could complicate the story. As we are doing the Beren and Luthien story in a single season we don’t have as many of those moments to breathe so quicker plot progression takes precedent

I was pretty sure you were referring to the story as written by Tolkien. And while the way that Emeldir is described in the text might seem problematic if it were happening in modern context, in the context of the culture of which she is a part, it likely merely describes the reality of how she is viewed. A woman in a pre-modern culture might even take pride in the epithet "man-hearted". We have taken great care to show both male and female characters exhibiting strength in ways that are both stereotypically masculine and feminine. Sometimes the same character shows both qualities. I'm not sure that we need to shy away from the idea that a culture like the Beorians might call a woman who is unusually tough and brave "man-hearted".

That said, the term has not shown itself in this script thus far.
Yes, thats why I wasn’t as bothered by our scripts as I know we are trying to build a show that gives our characters the chance to shine in the own ways. And even if a character would be happy for a certain role/epithet etc in their own context we do need explore that decision careful due to a modern audience. But if you build the culture completely, warts and all, you can do that exploring.
 

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
But if you build the culture completely, warts and all, you can do that exploring.
We've talked about this a few times thus far: the people of Hador thinking someone's injury is hilarious, Hador himself being something of a walking, talking "Hero King" cliche.

As to Emeldir herself, I'd be super-interested in your thoughts on Scene 2 of the above script, specifically with an eye on Emeldir's role within. I'd certainly like to take the opportunity to strengthen her character if possible.
 

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
Current status of E12 script: (Last Updated: 8/30/2021)

Teaser: Not Started
Beginning of festival parade

Act I: Written

Scene 1: Written
Onslaught of flames and dragon at Dorthonion

Scene 2: Written
Evacuation of Ladros

Scene 3: Written
Fingon at Barad Eithel

Scene 4: Written
News reaches Himring

Act II: Written

Scene 5: Written
Mobilization Montage

Scene 6: Written
Dorthonion under assault

Scene 7: Written
Celegorm and Curufin routed

Scene 8: Written
Death of Angrod and Aegnor

Act III: Written

Scene 9: Written
Maglor's Gap under assault

Scene 10: Written
Pass of Aglon falls

Scene 11: Written
Barahir awaits the arrival of Finrod

Scene 12: Written
Fingolfin launches a sortie

Act IV: Written

Scene 13: Written
Maglor's Gap falls

Scene 14: Written
Himring beseiged

Scene 15: Written
Finrod launches a sortie

Scene 16: Written
Fingolfin encounters balrogs

Tag: Not Started
Abrazan escapes
 
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Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
Rochechad, Sindarin for horse-camp? Got it from an Elvish dictionary website.
Hmmm. They do often keep horses there, but that isn't the place's main purpose. I found a translator that suggested Tir-Othrond for Watchfort.
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
Pssst - they're Fëanoreans. They can give it a Quenya name, I think. ;)

But yes, Himring is Sindarin (Ever-cold), and all their names are Sindarin, so if we want to use Sindarin, that's okay too.

So if we are sticking to Sindarin, perhaps "North Beacon"? That would be Fornarthan.
 

Haerangil

Well-Known Member
I doubt Quenya would be politically opportune...

Rochechad doesn't sound very elegant, Tirith-Othrond i'd like, but "rond" suggests a domed hall, which i doubt they have ("Tir" is wrong anyway). "Fornarthan" i really like... i suppose they DO have a beacon there?

What about simply "Echad Ard-galen"?
 
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Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
Just as an update, the script for this episode is about halfway done. Right now, I'm particularly looking for feedback concerning any big issues that might be difficult to unravel later on. Small grammatical or typographical errors that are easily fixed are also super helpful, but I probably won't get too into the weeds on larger dialogue-specific suggestions until I finish the first draft.
 

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
In scene 11, in order to avoid the sedentary conversation that was pointed out in an earlier Ladros scene, I added a very short setup sequence where Beren rescues some of the Ladros refugees who have been captured by a small Orc band. It's not really a scene, and there's no real dialogue, but it reminds us that even though we have people talking, they are actively in a war.
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
lf we need Amlach's grandson....

We should name his son and grandson in ways that make their relationship to Amlach more clearly. Something like....

Ambrith son of Amgrin son of Amlach

or

Imlach son of Amrach son of Amlach

or

Amachon son of Amadar son of Amlach

Amréd = Heir of Amlach (-ish)

Etc.

Amlach's son is the exact same age as Hador, so having his grandson being roughly the same age or older than Galdor/Gundor should work.
 
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Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
Ok, first draft is complete! Feel free to make comments, suggested edits, so on and so forth. I haven't done any work on formatting yet, or even a proofreading pass, but I'll start on that once I know what the upshot of the Frame Discussion Thursday next is.
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
As Nick has said, the first draft is finished, and it's ready for a read-through! Anyone who would like to leave comments or suggest edits is welcome to do so. We hope to have this ready for the podcast on September 23rd.

If you are wondering where the link to the document is, you can find it here:
In the interest of transparency and collaboration, I've taken the liberty of creating a "Work in Progress" script document, merging it for now with the Script Outline so that one can see the result of the outline alongside the developing screenplay. Thus far, there is only about a scene and a half written in there, but I welcome comments as I go. I may not be able to slow down to answer every comment before I've completed a first draft, but my hope is that comments and suggestions can help guide the process. Here's the link: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_2lyJbTg7X3ZdbrXq3GTJ6F2XPLOmGt6zvJLflD44_A/edit?usp=sharing
 

Haerangil

Well-Known Member
Weird.This was not what i had expected ... i knew there was the battle but i had not seen a straight on action laden war-movie. That does not mean i do not l7ke it.I like that Beren and Gil-Galad are introduced, Gelmir and Rhogrin are there as well as Gwindor, the human chieftains all... Draugluin, Glaurung, Gothmog and two more Balrogs... that is a lot. Is Gorbol the orc meant to be Gorgol the Butcher who will slay Barahir and whom beren will kill?
 

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
Weird.This was not what i had expected ... i knew there was the battle but i had not seen a straight on action laden war-movie. That does not mean i do not l7ke it.I like that Beren and Gil-Galad are introduced, Gelmir and Rhogrin are there as well as Gwindor, the human chieftains all... Draugluin, Glaurung, Gothmog and two more Balrogs... that is a lot. Is Gorbol the orc meant to be Gorgol the Butcher who will slay Barahir and whom beren will kill?
Yeah, I likely just misspelled it in the wee hours or something.

As to it being a war movie, yeah... we're spending two hour-long episodes on this continent-wide "battle". And I've maintained that most of the Silmarillion "battles" are not single engagements. They span hundreds of miles and last days, if not weeks, due to the distances marched.
 

ouzaru

Well-Known Member
Weird.This was not what i had expected ... i knew there was the battle but i had not seen a straight on action laden war-movie. That does not mean i do not l7ke it.I like that Beren and Gil-Galad are introduced, Gelmir and Rhogrin are there as well as Gwindor, the human chieftains all... Draugluin, Glaurung, Gothmog and two more Balrogs... that is a lot. Is Gorbol the orc meant to be Gorgol the Butcher who will slay Barahir and whom beren will kill?
After my first pass, I do think the drama is a little bit muddled here, most of the episode gets us to where we need to be but doesn't give us clear indications of what these moments mean for the characters, with a few exceptions, like Aegnor and Angrod's last dialogue. I think it'll feel less overwhelmingly action-y if we make sure that the character beats are shining through each scene.
 
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