Nicholas Palazzo
Well-Known Member
That's been our general policy. I think we did show Melkor in Mandos, but only very briefly.
Script Discussion S05E13
- Thread starter Nicholas Palazzo
- Start date
That's been our general policy. I think we did show Melkor in Mandos, but only very briefly.
Nicholas Palazzo
Well-Known Member
Ok, I have opened a document where I will be writing E13. Please note that editing on E12 is still ongoing, so I may have to make changes here based on changes there. And do feel free to make any comments or suggestions on this document as I go.
docs.google.com
I intend to reply to this post with links for context later.
SilmFilm S05E13 WiP Script
THE SILMARILLION FILM PROJECT SEASON 5, EPISODE 13 - DAGOR BRAGOLLACH: PART II THE BATTLE OF SUDDEN FLAME By Nicholas Palazzo Edited By Marie Prosser, Brian Fattorini, Ilana Mushin, Patrick Graham, Kathrin Heierli TEASER: Teaser: Frame - Harad - Teaser: Confrontation between ...
docs.google.com
I intend to reply to this post with links for context later.
Nicholas Palazzo
Well-Known Member
Ok, I have opened a document where I will be writing E13. Please note that editing on E12 is still ongoing, so I may have to make changes here based on changes there. And do feel free to make any comments or suggestions on this document as I go.
SilmFilm S05E13 WiP Script
THE SILMARILLION FILM PROJECT SEASON 5, EPISODE 13 - DAGOR BRAGOLLACH: PART II THE BATTLE OF SUDDEN FLAME By Nicholas Palazzo Edited By Marie Prosser, Brian Fattorini, Ilana Mushin, Patrick Graham, Kathrin Heierli TEASER: Teaser: Frame - Harad - Teaser: Confrontation between ...
I intend to reply to this post with links for context later.
Discussion of the Dagor Bragollach with Prof. Olsen:
Nicholas Palazzo
Well-Known Member
Ok, I have opened a document where I will be writing E13. Please note that editing on E12 is still ongoing, so I may have to make changes here based on changes there. And do feel free to make any comments or suggestions on this document as I go.
SilmFilm S05E13 WiP Script
THE SILMARILLION FILM PROJECT SEASON 5, EPISODE 13 - DAGOR BRAGOLLACH: PART II THE BATTLE OF SUDDEN FLAME By Nicholas Palazzo Edited By Marie Prosser, Brian Fattorini, Ilana Mushin, Patrick Graham, Kathrin Heierli TEASER: Teaser: Frame - Harad - Teaser: Confrontation between ...
I intend to reply to this post with links for context later.
Dagor Bragollach Maps
Dagor Bragollach Map Collection
Infantry holding defensive position with cavalry protecting flanks. Dor-lomin skirmishing on the right flank. Cavalry retreats from Left Flank. Fingolfin pushes forward to facilitate a fighting retreat. Infantry and Left Flank fall back. Dor-L...
docs.google.com
Nicholas Palazzo
Well-Known Member
Ok, I have opened a document where I will be writing E13. Please note that editing on E12 is still ongoing, so I may have to make changes here based on changes there. And do feel free to make any comments or suggestions on this document as I go.
SilmFilm S05E13 WiP Script
THE SILMARILLION FILM PROJECT SEASON 5, EPISODE 13 - DAGOR BRAGOLLACH: PART II THE BATTLE OF SUDDEN FLAME By Nicholas Palazzo Edited By Marie Prosser, Brian Fattorini, Ilana Mushin, Patrick Graham, Kathrin Heierli TEASER: Teaser: Frame - Harad - Teaser: Confrontation between ...
I intend to reply to this post with links for context later.
Script discussions for episodes 12-13
Nicholas Palazzo
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I've been doing an experiment with these episodes, seeing if writing them in documents people could see and comment on as I went would help the process.
Nicholas Palazzo
Well-Known Member
And, our outline, and progress update post: (Last Edited 10/16/21)
docs.google.com
Teaser: Not Started
Confrontation between brothers
ACT 1: Written
Scene 1: Written
Fingolfin's army thrown into full retreat
Scene 2: Written
Finrod joins the battle. It goes poorly.
Scene 3: Written
Gate of Himring has fallen
Scene 4: Written
Glaurung attacks Keep Helevorn
ACT II: Written
Scene 5: Written
Fingolfin's army routed to Barad Eithel
Scene 6: Written
Barahir rescues Finrod
Scene 7: Written
Assault on Himring Broken
Scene 8: Written
Amras rescues Caranthir
ACT III: Incomplete
Scene 9: Written
Ring of Barahir given
Scene 10: Written
Settling in montage
Scene 11a: Written
Sauron breaks things down
Scene 11b: Written
Maedhros breaks things down
Scene 12: Written
Debate at Barad Eithel
ACT IV: Incomplete
Scene 13: Written
Fingolfin sets off for Angband
Scene 14: Written
Finrod and Andreth in Brethil
Scene 15: Written
The Duel
Scene 16: Not Started
Frame - Incanus and Abrazan escape
Tag: Incomplete
Final Montage
Gandalf and Abrazan arrive at Harlond
SilmFilm S05E13 Outline
The Silmarillion Film Project Season 5, Episode 13: Central conflict: A-Plot: Protagonist: Fingolfin B-Plot: POV character: Frame: The older son and Gandalf flee to Gondor. Episode Outline Teaser: Frame - Harad - Teaser: Confrontation between the Brothers - Younger brother...
docs.google.com
Teaser: Not Started
Confrontation between brothers
ACT 1: Written
Scene 1: Written
Fingolfin's army thrown into full retreat
Scene 2: Written
Finrod joins the battle. It goes poorly.
Scene 3: Written
Gate of Himring has fallen
Scene 4: Written
Glaurung attacks Keep Helevorn
ACT II: Written
Scene 5: Written
Fingolfin's army routed to Barad Eithel
Scene 6: Written
Barahir rescues Finrod
Scene 7: Written
Assault on Himring Broken
Scene 8: Written
Amras rescues Caranthir
ACT III: Incomplete
Scene 9: Written
Ring of Barahir given
Scene 10: Written
Settling in montage
Scene 11a: Written
Sauron breaks things down
Scene 11b: Written
Maedhros breaks things down
Scene 12: Written
Debate at Barad Eithel
ACT IV: Incomplete
Scene 13: Written
Fingolfin sets off for Angband
Scene 14: Written
Finrod and Andreth in Brethil
Scene 15: Written
The Duel
Scene 16: Not Started
Frame - Incanus and Abrazan escape
Tag: Incomplete
Final Montage
Gandalf and Abrazan arrive at Harlond
Last edited:
Nicholas Palazzo
Well-Known Member
Look forward to it!
Rob Harding
Well-Known Member
So the thing I am struggling with is primarily one of outlines, not of scripts. But I think it makes it somewhat harder when it comes to reading scripts as it's not laid out clearly within the outlines. It's the emotional character arcs. The outlines are very plot focused and about physical moments and events. It is very hard from those outlines to track the story of the episode. You can follow the events but not the dilemma, the rising conflict, overcoming that conflict and resolution. The heart of the story. Which is really what needs to lead. I know it exists as I've read the scripts. But sometimes it is hard to parse. Certainly would be easier if this was the focus of the outlines. As the action all feeds into that. It needs to be tied to that character arc. And I think it will help with editing of scripts and knowing what is vital and what isn't if we have the emotional beats to anchor things to. If action doesn't serve that core, we know it can be trimmed or go.
Nicholas Palazzo
Well-Known Member
It is indeed a feature of Tolkienian story-telling that the plot drives the action rather than the character arcs, and I can see why that might be difficult from a more modern literary lens.
The dilemma is the attack from Angband. The rising conflict is the battle. The resolution is the end of the battle and the death of Fingolfin.
What might be more helpful is a breakdown of the emotional arcs of the more than a dozen major characters featured here individually as these episodes are closer akin to something like Avengers: Infinity War than your typical season wrap-up.
Rob Harding
Well-Known Member
Equally we are trying to tell a cinematic tale and to be able to have that visual action work it’d help to know why it’s there. Agsin, not saying this isn’t happening but itd be easier at the editing stage if it’s clear at the plotting stage. Infinity War is such a great example, thank you for that. You want to have the Peter/Tony moment and the Thor entering moment have real weight cos the track has been laid. Stops the editing being just canon/grammar/length spotting snd can help it be story necessary. But then, I’m a plotter. Others like to write as they go. Though SilmFilm does facilitate a plotter mentality. I know it’s not something Corey and the team lead to. I think they focus more on story beats.
Nicholas Palazzo
Well-Known Member
Right, our plotting stage for these episodes was definitely during the script discussions, which in this case was months ago.
I'll try to put something together as far as spelling out a bit better what the character arcs are.
Rob Harding
Well-Known Member
oh totally, I just meant an idea for future reference
Nicholas Palazzo
Well-Known Member
Rob Harding
Well-Known Member
Its certainly hard coming in late to the game so would like to be there at the start of a season. Tricky thing is, I’ve written a hypothetical series-bible for a multi-season Beren and Luthien series and written two episodes all as portfolio work. So I’ll have to shake loose some of my own internal cannon and reframe my brain. But honestly, the planning stage and character work is what I find most exciting so am really happy to get into the weeds and craft that within a team. Which I guess will be pretty vital when you pretty much have only two leads. There’s so much going on there in the Beren and Luthien take though, what with fatherhood and legacies and destinies and defining oneself. That story to me is such a boiling down of what makes the legendarium
Ilana Mushin
Well-Known Member
I’ve started scribbling on the script draft - getting all teary in the process. Like Rob, I’m coming in late and I’m not confident at writing dialogue so I’ll leave that to the experts, and think about the emotions of the characters a bit more. Tolkien was very plot driven but man, he had a great intuition about human (elf?) psychology. Reading through this draft reminded me how complex this season has been to plot because with the coming of humans there are just so many different characters and dynamics to follow. For example, this episode is the first since early in the season that we have proper bad guys scenes, and we revisit where Marion/Sauron is on his journey. The presence of the Feanorians in this season has been very scattered so it is good to see the brothers coming together at Himring, but really they’ve had little to do this season compared with the other Noldor. And Doriath has been almost completely out of the action this season - but will of course play a pivotal role in the upcoming seasons. So it is a real juggle. I this episode going to be able to be screened in an hour? It seems like it could take longer, depending on how much we want to do action scenes (eg. Glaurung’s conquest of Helevorn). There are some ’quiet’ moments of dialogue that we will want to linger on - Finrod and Andreth (post death of Aegnor, this is going to be a very emotional scene), interactions between Fingolfin and Fingolfin, Galdor and Gundor (presenting the human perspective on all of this). Can we make this a longer episode since it is the season Finale?
Nicholas Palazzo
Well-Known Member
If we have to, but we certainly hadn't planned on it. One of the reasons the battle starts in E12 is to avoid a two-hour finale.
Ilana Mushin
Well-Known Member
I think episode 12 is well paced but there is a lot going on in ep13. I assume we want to give the duel with Morgoth its due. If we are weaving in bad guys POV, as well as Feanorian POV, Galdor & Gundor (which my autocorrect keeps trying to correct to ’Gondor’ lol) and having proper Barahir/Finrod, Andreth/Finrod and a decent fraught final scene between Fingolfin and Fingon, AND the frame wrapup then I think it will be tough to do in 1 hour.