Script Discussion: S06E01 WE'RE BACK!!!!

How about act one starting more chaotically? It starts very organised, so to say, with the admin (spiritual admin and geopolitical), and then goes into the smaller details, we could also flip it maybe? What if we start off with Sauron and Thuringwethil/Barahirs Band in the thick of picking up on the pieces on the battlefield after the DB, (the two plots with the scout of Barahir can work together anyway) and then towards the end, we get someone in one of these plots maybe from a hill in dorthonion ominously looking down towards a tower (both barahir and sauron have interest in tol sirions status after all) --> transition into the tol sirion scene, and then after that, for our ominous act one break, we get the ominous namo scene, where we could already have foreshadowed a little bit from Sauron & Thuringwethil, but nothing explicit yet..

I really like all the scenes individually, and also the little petty Sauron/Gothmog antagonism. Also all the scenes have a lot of potential for angst, desperation and all the good post bragollach feelings.
 
I agree that these scenes are disjointed enough that it might seem arbitrary what order they go in. We are trying to tell a lot of little stories in this first episode, and they are not all connected (or only tangentially overlapping). It is worth mentioning that Corey Olsen expects the scene with Námo as the opening of the episode.

I agree that we could show what leads up to the death of this particular human in what is currently our 'scene 1'. But it does create problems. This 'peak beyond the veil' thing is not a trick we are going to use often. By doing it as the season opener, the audience will accept that this scene is completely disconnected from everything else. We are allowed a 'Dagor Bragollach aftermath' scene of indeterminate time after the end of the battle if we do it straight away. If we try to introduce it as a part of another storyline, then it may require a bit more explanation as to why Námo, Lord of Mandos, is wandering around Dorthonion. Didn't the Valar 'abandon' Middle-earth and leave the Noldor to their own devices? But also...why is Námo not then interacting with Sauron and Thuringwethil? The scene becomes much less 'timeless' if we insert it at the end of Act 1 instead of the beginning.

As for the Minas Tirith stuff...there are challenges with waiting until after we see Sauron's necromancy plot to introduce the Tol Sirion storyline. We are wanting to have Fingon, Finrod, and Gil-galad all gathered at Minas Tirith before moving them elsewhere. If we wait for any length of time into the episode to hold that meeting, it will feel as though Sauron missed the window of opportunity for his attack - he could have gotten the High King and Finrod, but instead he just gets an empty tower, and even Orodreth escapes. So we have to be careful to introduce Tol Sirion before we introduce Sauron's plot with the souls.
 
Yeah i see your issue, if Mandos isn't strictly in the "prologue" the transitions in & out of that scene get more difficult.

Oh, it'll absolutely work out like this as well, I guess the difference is really just a big picture to "in the field" zoom vs the reverse. I think i was just thinking differently about how to link the scenes and that's what lead me that way. Another option might be Thuringwethil's helicopter capabilities guiding us through act I, which would put her a bit more prominent as spy again and lead into her plot with Sauron. Anyway, just throwing spaghetti against the wall, I'm sure you'll find a wonderful way to tie it all together
 
Yeah i see your issue, if Mandos isn't strictly in the "prologue" the transitions in & out of that scene get more difficult.

Oh, it'll absolutely work out like this as well, I guess the difference is really just a big picture to "in the field" zoom vs the reverse. I think i was just thinking differently about how to link the scenes and that's what lead me that way. Another option might be Thuringwethil's helicopter capabilities guiding us through act I, which would put her a bit more prominent as spy again and lead into her plot with Sauron. Anyway, just throwing spaghetti against the wall, I'm sure you'll find a wonderful way to tie it all together

Could she visit Glaurung in his lair? Would be nice to see him completely happy and content and irritated at his "own people" disturbing him.
 
To do that, we would likely have to delete another scene, which is .... a problem.
Which one would have to be deleted? If Thuringwethil is anyway flying around showing us diverse places, why should she not visit there and see the dwarves starting their "siege"? BTW how was the prophecy about Huan passed from Glaurung to Sauron? Has this been decided yet?
 
Which one would have to be deleted? If Thuringwethil is anyway flying around showing us diverse places, why should she not visit there and see the dwarves starting their "siege"?

See the episode outline posted in the first page of this thread. In general, there is room for 4 scenes, each roughly 4 minutes long, in each act.

As we do not currently have any scenes planned for Keep Helevorn, this suggestion would be an additional scene...meaning it would have to take the place of something else already in the outline.

BTW how was the prophecy about Huan passed from Glaurung to Sauron? Has this been decided yet?

Offscreen
 
Since it has now been decided that the band of outlaws has a camp dog (dubbed 'Marley' in the script discussion), the important question becomes, whose dog is it? Who is primarily responsible for feeding and caring for this animal? It's fine if this distinction is given to one of our background characters. The 'speaking' outlaws are: Barahir, Beren, Gorlim, Baragund, and Belegund.

Our choices for dog care-taker are:

Twelve men beside him [Barahir] still there went,
still faithful when all hope was spent.
Their names are yet in elven-song
remembered, though the years are long
since doughty Dagnir and Ragnor,
Radhruin, Dairuin, and Gildor,
Gorlim Unhappy, and Urthel,
and Arthad and Hathaldir fell;
since the black shaft with venomed wound
took Belegund and Baragund,
the mighty sons of Bregolas;
since he whose doom and deeds surpass
all tales of Men was laid on bier,
fair Beren son of Barahir.


(spoiler: unlike every named character on this list, the dog will survive the season)
 
I think it might be rather interesting if it were Gorlim's dog. Honestly, I'd generally see the orcs just killing the dog, but if it's Gorlim's then perhaps it can be passed to Beren at Gorlim's ghost scene and lead Beren back to the camp by a direct route (since he's been scouting he likely has not been walking in a straight line), and it also gives the dog a reason to be gone (following Gorlim or something like that).
 
I think it might be rather interesting if it were Gorlim's dog. Honestly, I'd generally see the orcs just killing the dog, but if it's Gorlim's then perhaps it can be passed to Beren at Gorlim's ghost scene and lead Beren back to the camp by a direct route (since he's been scouting he likely has not been walking in a straight line), and it also gives the dog a reason to be gone (following Gorlim or something like that).

But would Gorlim's dog not be able to track Gorlim's wife were she still around? The fact that it doesn't being a proof that she is not?
 
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I think it might be rather interesting if it were Gorlim's dog. Honestly, I'd generally see the orcs just killing the dog, but if it's Gorlim's then perhaps it can be passed to Beren at Gorlim's ghost scene and lead Beren back to the camp by a direct route (since he's been scouting he likely has not been walking in a straight line), and it also gives the dog a reason to be gone (following Gorlim or something like that).

Honestly, I feel like that would be a somewhat distracting detail to add to the Gorlim's ghost scene. And I would say that even unexplained, the impression would merely be that the dog ran off during the fighting.
 
Honestly, I feel like that would be a somewhat distracting detail to add to the Gorlim's ghost scene. And I would say that even unexplained, the impression would merely be that the dog ran off during the fighting.
That's fair, though I still rather like the idea of Beren caring for Gorlim's dog for character reasons.
 
Quick note. It's come up in the E03 thread that it might behoove us to have Barahir's band mentioned at Minas Tirith. Either the scene with Fingon or the dinner scene would do.

...with a certain degree of admiration. The thing we want to show is them being famous and generally known about. Half a sentence would suffice - just that it would be nice to see the others nodding to signal that all involved do know about Barahir's men's merit.
 
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I mean just practically too, ppl at Tol Sirion would appreciate them. They must've notice what rougher winds now blow down from the hills of dorthonion generally, and that Sauron is being occupied there a bit nevertheless. I can't see Orodreth & co just being oblivious of that.

We might throw in a tiny bit of positive and negative foreshadowing too, in general to the nirnaeth, where the bond of elves and men only partly comes through, and maybe also giving Gil-Galad a tiny moment, as one of the future main parties in the last alliance. Gil-Galad can always do with a little characterisation xD
 
It's easy to forget how small Beleriand is, given the comparison of far larger distances in the Lord of the Rings...

Tol Sirion and western Dorthonion are right around the corner, it is only sixty miles apart! Three days on foot, maybe two for an elf on a forced march. one day on horseback, possibly half a day on elven horses...
 
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It's easy to forget how small Beleriand is, given the comparison of far larger distances in the Lord of the Rings...

Tol Sirion and western Dorthonion are right around the corner, it is only sixty miles apart! Three days on foot, maybe two for an elf on a forced march. one day on horseback, possibly half a day on elven horses...


But there are the Encircling Mountains in-between, so one has to go around quite a bit. Or Orodreth gets some news from the Eagles.
 
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