Script Discussion S06E09

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
Alright then, we currently have a date for next Script Discussion, (AHEM) 11NOV22 @ 8 ET. This *could* change if Prof. Olsen decides that he wants to do two weeks in a row of the main broadcast, but right now nothing has been said about that.
 
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The disguises are going to be an interesting problem — why would Lúthien's first thought be to go there on her way to find Beren? She may know they need disguises, but the skins of her fallen enemy seem a bit of a weird choice. (And does she know how Thuringwhethil's cloak works?)

It seems more natural if, after finding Beren, they adopt a "we'll cross that bridge when we come to it" attitude towards disguise — which is pretty common in this season. Then, when they pass by Til Sirion, they pick up the skins. It might just have to be luck by which they know how they work, but there's probably a better solution.
 
Musically I have one thing to offer at this stage. There was a call for a song from Daeron as he composes The Lay in the wilderness. The perfect time may be when Beren is about to set out on the last leg of the journey, rather than turning this very heavily musical season into an actual musical, have Daeron composing Beren’s song as the soundtrack for the scene, alternating between visuals between Beren and Daeron. This then becomes both men’s song of loss of Luthien. It also means that Luthien has to find Beren with a different method other than hearing him singing.
 
Hey I have an idea for Thuringwethil and Luthien (what a surprise coming from me) What if we had Thuringwethil, as planned, basically killed in ep. 7, and close to death anyway, but we do not just show her being just, unceremoneously as a random corpse laying around somewhere. Instead then in episode 9, luthien somehow finds her somewhere in a shadowed place, nursing her wounds, close to fading, and sings her a sort of lullaby into releasing her from this plane, a death song so to speak (forshadowing the convincing she will do in the lullaby for morgoth but also in a way convincing the corrupted maia of mandos to let go and fade into the west, and also we could have our cake and eat it too by not having luthien battle thuringwethil but still having her as a sort of foil to luthien)

If we want we can have her give "the cloak" to Luthien, along with maybe even a hint towards how to proceed towards tol-in-gaurhoth, as Thuringwethil at this point has no more reason to guard sauron's back. Then it would make it less a "luthien skins the dead bat" scene, and more, luthien gains a power of sauron's spies because he has betrayed them, a classic Sauron opened up a vulnerability by becoming more selfish and power-driven. Also it would make the whole "disguise plot" more about exploiting Sauron's mistakes, loyalty, stealth, instead of the raw, like, "oh they found two skins on the ground" which works in the fairytale version of the lay but not necessarily in a long form story.

How that ties into draugluin or another wolf pelt or sth i do not know, but maybe that part then is more mundane and luthien can just camouflage beren under a normal wolfs pelt or sth, without it having to be the same thing as thuringwethil's cloak, just as a werewolf.
 
I have a queston to the whole Luthien's struggling to heal Beren idea - they are very near Brethil where Beren's mother and Beren's people are

1. if Luthien is unfamiliar with mortal illnesses and wound healing complications - why does she not consult mortal healers nearby?

2. if Luthien fears Beren might die, why does she not send Huan for Beren's mother to be brought for them to be able to say their last farewells?

Does Luthien fear Beren's people will blame her for being the reason Beren risks his live and health and for her bringing bad luck to someone that they value and put their future's hopes on?
(She would not be wrong here, Beren might be expected to live for about five decades more, thanks to his love for Luthien he will die his first death the very next year, and not more then two after he has first met her - his normal potential life-span has been shortened considerably).

Regarding Beren not abandoning his quest to just be with Luthien - he just had ex-king Finrod and his elves sacrifice their live for his quest and he was the only to survive. Giving up the quest now would mean dishonouring their sacrifice and the memory of the dead - not something ancient humans were prone to do.
 
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We will bring Beren's mother and the people of Brethil into the story in Episode 11, when Beren's injury is an amputated hand....and when the eagles can set them down in Brethil.

Yes, Finrod's death can be part of the motivation for Beren not to abandon the quest.
 
We will bring Beren's mother and the people of Brethil into the story in Episode 11, when Beren's injury is an amputated hand....and when the eagles can set them down in Brethil.
Understood. Still we need a believable reason for Luthien not to address Beren's people for help. Either a locational or a mental barrier. Maybe she just dismisses humans as viable agents per default - which Beren might point out to her during their quarrel.
 
Understood. Still we need a believable reason for Luthien not to address Beren's people for help. Either a locational or a mental barrier. Maybe she just dismisses humans as viable agents per default - which Beren might point out to her during their quarrel.
First one: where are Beren and Luthien geographically? Second, I can see why sending Huan is not an option; would Emeldir understand why a massive wolfhound is running around in Brethil?
 
First one: where are Beren and Luthien geographically? Second, I can see why sending Huan is not an option; would Emeldir understand why a massive wolfhound is running around in Brethil?

At least in one version they are in Brethil during Beren's Leap e.g. here https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Leap_of_Beren

And regarding the 2nd point - dogs bringing peoples to wounded persons in the wilderness is such a trope in movies and tv that every viewer would consider this option obvious.
 
They are near Brethil, but not in Brethil, in our version . While gravely wounded, Beren cannot be moved safely. Also, Lúthien does not feel comfortable leaving him in this precarious situation. She has (presumably) sent Huan for help, as he returns at the end of scene 1 with healing herbs. After the imminent danger has passed and Beren can be safely moved, they are no longer in need of emergency assistance.
 
At least in one version they are in Brethil during Beren's Leap e.g. here https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Leap_of_Beren

And regarding the 2nd point - dogs bringing peoples to wounded persons in the wilderness is such a trope in movies and tv that every viewer would consider this option obvious.

Brethil is a big place, and it's population comparatively small. By the time Huan searched out some Brethil residents, communicated his intent, and got back, Beren could be dead. Instead, Huan does something far more helpful.
 
So where exactly are they? - As if in the open they would be found easily by Daeron with his elvish eyes?
 
Brethil is a big place, and it's population comparatively small. By the time Huan searched out some Brethil residents, communicated his intent, and got back, Beren could be dead. Instead, Huan does something far more helpful.

Still Beren might take offence and accusse Luthien of dimissing human agency in their later confrontation - he might misunderstand her lack of belief in his capablity to complete the quest as a disregard
1) for him as something more than just a cute helpless love interest
2) and for him as a human in comparisons with elvish warriors and
3) for humanity as a whole - as assumably proven by her not even considering asking for human help in a human problem...

Brethil is a big place, and it's population comparatively small. By the time Huan searched out some Brethil residents, communicated his intent, and got back, Beren could be dead. Instead, Huan does something far more helpful.

If it were so, why then was there the big problem with stationing the Feanorian army there in the previous episodes? Humans and elves could have just easily avoided each other for the short period time required.
 
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Beren is not in a position to contribute to the decision making while he is unconscious and gravely wounded.

When he wakes up and is healing, he is not really in a position to be critical of how Lúthien went about saving his life. What she did worked, and if he is critical, he is going to come across to the audience as ungrateful and maybe even a bit petty.

Beren is in love with Lúthien and not really willing to argue with her. That is why he keeps his own counsel, seemingly agreeing with her, but then sneaking off on his own. This isn't the greatest, but he's not used to expressing himself critically when she's around.

How Lúthien interacts with humans who are not Beren will be a central part of the story of Episode 11, and then we will have voices other than Beren's to express doubt and suspicion and criticism towards her.
 
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