Script Discussion S06E11

Dancing of course. And mostly non-Luthien dancing. And human dancing being very different from elvish. Humans playing the drums. Their dancing being less gracefull, more communal, rhytmic, repetitive, formulaic, using fixed stęps and figures but more energetig and flashy than individual sophisticated expression of artistry of the elves. Humans having sorrowfull expressions and outcries of woe mixed in even in into their most joyous dances.

Where do you propose that dancing would fit within the scenes as currently outlined for episode 11?
 
Where do you propose that dancing would fit within the scenes as currently outlined for episode 11?

If there is a thread for ep 12 I will move some of my suggestions there.

But for ep. 11 there might be some drum playing and dancing among the humans before the eagles land or later in the background later when it is visible that Beren will be better. And human children playing some games together outside. (Maybe Luthien even dancing a step or two with them when going through the settlement.) Of course some random chickens running around.

Or the humans might be doing something together outside to make them be gathered somehow outside to witness the landing of the eagles. As Midsummer is to follow yet it will not be the harvest though. Maybe they do build a new house and some of the men are working on the roof so they see the eagles coming from afar? Or gather some honey high in the trees?
 
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If there is a thread for ep 12 I will move my suggestions there.

But for ep. 11 there might be some drum playing and dancing among the humans before the eagles land or later in the background later when it is visible that Beren will be better. And human children playing some games together outside. (Maybe Luthien even dancing a step or two with them when going through the settlement.) Of course some random chickens running around.

Or the humans might be doing something together outside to make them be gathered somehow outside to witness the landing of the eagles. As Midsummer follows it will not be the harvest though. Maybe they do build a new house and some of the men are working on the roof so they see th eagles coming from afar? Or gather some honey high in the trees?
I think that Mithluin’s post was about things that the speaking characters might be doing as part of the scenes where they are talking, not about what is happening in the background.
 
I think that Mithluin’s post was about things that the speaking characters might be doing as part of the scenes where they are talking, not about what is happening in the background.
Human women? Hand-spindle-spinning of course. Even older ones can do it semi-blind if trained the whole life - their fingers wil remember the movements.

And young girls were trained early to spin too - if you need their hands to be busy. In former times almost all women went around with a spindle almost everywhere - when not cooking, feeding animals or working the fields, so not to waste time being idle. Insofar the spindle was a bit like the precursor of the mobile phone for girls in ancient times. Before the introduction of machine spinning (the spinning wheel being the first of said machines) most of the female populace spun more or less constantly, as the demand for threads was simply neverending.
[There are reports from Mesopotamia that making a special dyed cloth from 2,5kg/5,5 pounds of wool took on average 36 days of wool preparation 175 days of spinning and 22 days of weaving.]

Here a current Russian spinner (a very competent one) reports that 5-6 years old girls were given their 1st spindles made by their fathers [1:23]:
And she also confirms it was not affected by the bad lighting in a dim cottage - contrary to sewing or embroidery which needed good lighting [2:02].

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As such all the women present in those conversation scenes - young and old - should all (already and still) be competent spinners.

We could even have a little wordless scene where Luthien picks up Emeldir's spindle while Emeldir fell asleep keeping watch at her sleeping son's bedside and finishes her spinning for her and Emeldir half-wakes to watch her do this - insomuch proving to Emeldir that there are some constant female values/virtues shared even accross the races' border and that even an elvish princess like Luthien still remembers how to do her own spinning (we have seen Luthien spinning before, but Emeldir has not).

Or a scene where one of the young girls hands to the other and Emeldir (and maybe even a visiting Andreth) a spindle and a distaff from a basket and each of them then proceed to dress their distaff with wool and starts spinning while chatting together and Luthien just comes in and grabs a spare spindle and distaff from the table and goes on to sit down in a corner and does the same as they do, joining them in their common female work - to their all complete shock and amazement. No words spoken, but both Luthien's deliberate intrussion and claiming of her place in the human female space and sphere will be understood (females can be territorial too but are usually more tolerant if the intruder can prove her worth. Not opposing such an action - and I am sure none would really dare to oppose it verbally - would mean a silent aknowledgment of Luthien's claim to be a fiancee and as such a semi-part ot this households/clans female workforce - and not a mere guest who stays a stranger). They could then proceed to speak of completely different matters.

Of course you could also have one pluck a (-n already killed) chicken - but this is risky nowadays due to the growing resitance to having animals portrayed as a food source in modern movies.

Embroidery, sprang, naabinding and tablet-weaving would be more tasks for the younger women to be done either in the winter when there is a big fire in the house or outside in the sunlight.

Knitting and crochet are far too modern - knitting arrived in Europe via the Arabs from the East and South in late Middle Ages and crochet itself is a relatively modern thing.

They could be also preparing some ornaments for the Misummer festival though - the one they will not attend because of the wedding - but they do not know that yet.
 

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BTW. Galadriel would not be traveling to Doriath alone. She must have at least a small entourage. It would be nice if Nimloth, her husbands' niece, is one of those. Maybe as the main assistant in the background and not speaking, just observing. She is remote kin to Thingol, Luthien and Galadriel herself so highborn enought to hold a high position in Galadriel's household even if still young. And she should exist already and establish some connections to the realm she will once rule with Dior - even if for a short time before it leads to her untimely death (and Nimloth's death is only 40 years after Luthien's wedding according to the lore.)

Let's remember again: according to Tolkien's timeline all of Doriath will be gone in 40 years from Luthien's wedding - because of the Silmaril. Saeros will die only 18 years from now, Beren and Luthien will die their 2nd deaths only 37 years from now (Thingol is killed a year before Luthien dies). Most of the characters here that we have followed for millenia are here already "on their way out" of the meta-story. And even if we add in the 4 years that we "saved" in Dorthonion, this does not change much in the grand scheme of things - beside of Túrin being yet to be born (originally Túrin would be already 2 years - and to arrive in Doriath in about mere 8 years from now - and Lalaith woud be about to be born at the time of Luthien's wedding.) But even if we would decide to add in an additional decade into the story for good measure - this is still very little for an elvish "character arc" of any kind.
 
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I recognize that 'only 40 years' seems fast, but perceived time in a television show passes about as slowly as the seasons do. So, the fact that the fall of Doriath is multiple seasons away is the reality of what we have to work with, despite the actual years being short. We will have all of Season 7 to lead up to the Nirnaeth, and we will revisit Doriath in the Túrin season. It is true we have to be careful of the timeline. We're saving Húrin's relationship with Morwen for Season 7, so that is why she is being depicted as an unwed teenage girl during Season 6.

That being said, Saeros' anti-human sentiment has been depicted in Episode 6 of this season, and will likely be reinforced during Episode 12. We will discuss the script for Episode 6 during the podcast this evening, and we will discuss the plans for Episode 12 in the new year.
 
I recognize that 'only 40 years' seems fast, but perceived time in a television show passes about as slowly as the seasons do. So, the fact that the fall of Doriath is multiple seasons away is the reality of what we have to work with, despite the actual years being short. We will have all of Season 7 to lead up to the Nirnaeth, and we will revisit Doriath in the Túrin season. It is true we have to be careful of the timeline. We're saving Húrin's relationship with Morwen for Season 7, so that is why she is being depicted as an unwed teenage girl during Season 6. .

That is a possibile approach but does that demands partially going back in time in some of the stories with them overlapping? If Turin is to arrive in Doriath in 8/12/15 - whatever we choose - years from now as a 10 years old then the circumstances he mets there must naturally follow the circumstances that were there 8/12/15 years ago. It cannot feel like a century has passed in-between for all the changes that we will present to have happened. Completely news things, developments and ideas are to be introduced sparingly and fitting the limited general timeframe. Things or problems that take longer than 10-20 years to grow should already be there vissible in their nascent shapes somewhere in the background.
 
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Yes, while our storytelling in Silm Film is largely chronological, there are occassions where we use out-of-order storytelling. So, for instance, Finrod's parting from Amarië was shown in Season 3 while the Noldor were in Araman, rather than prior to the kinslaying. Amarië and Finrod were shown together during the feast when Morgoth attacked the Trees, so it didn't come out of nowhere, but Finrod was the most minor of characters in Season 2, and was not fully introduced as a character in his own right until Finarfin was debating whether or not to turn back. So, it would have seemed weird to pause our important rebellion of the Noldor storytelling to show a touching goodbye between characters the audience barely knew. We determined that the moment at which it was important to show Finrod's parting from Amarië was when he made his final decision between going forward and going back, and thus it was a flashback.

Flashback was also extremely important to the episode that introduced Haleth. We cut between the story of building the stockade with 16-year-old Haleth and her father and brother, and the siege within the stockade with 30-year-old Haleth after the death of her father and brother. This allowed us to tell two stories at once within the same episode, rather than using a time skip or introducing the characters in one episode and them showing the dilema facing them in the next. Intercutting the stories allowed for a poignant look at the relationship (especially) between Haleth and her father, since the audience knows that he is dead from the opening scene. The bleakness of the situation in the stockade would also hit the audience freshly every time we cut back to it, rather than allowing them to get used to the situation without new and dire additions in every scene.

We have agreed that Season 7 is the Húrin and Huor season. It will start with the brothers being taken to Gondolin, an event that has chronologically already happened at the end of this season. So, yes, there will be a small step back in time at the beginning of Season 7, catching up to where we left off when Húrin and Huor return to Dor-lómin. So, no more than one episode of overlap.
 
Here are the ages of the human characters in this episode:


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Key events:
Dagor Bragollach - FA 455
Deaths of the Outlaw Band - FA 460
Quest for the Silmaril - FA 462-463
(Episode 11: Beren and Lúthien visit Brethil - FA 463)
Wedding of Beren and Lúthien - FA 463
 
Here are the ages of the human characters in this episode:


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Key events:
Dagor Bragollach - FA 455
Deaths of the Outlaw Band - FA 460
Quest for the Silmaril - FA 462-463
(Episode 11: Beren and Lúthien visit Brethil - FA 463)
Wedding of Beren and Lúthien - FA 463
What story are we telling between Húrin and Morwen in Season 6? Are they engaged? Do they meet and become betrothed at the wedding?
 
No, they do not appear together in Season 6 - Húrin and Huor are missing (presumed dead, but really in Gondolin) during the quest for the silmaril.
 
No, they do not appear together in Season 6 - Húrin and Huor are missing (presumed dead, but really in Gondolin) during the quest for the silmaril.
So what do we have for Morwen this season if her story has to be covered before she reaches Dor-Lómin?
 
She attends the wedding of Beren and Lúthien in Doriath, and then moves to Dor-lómin at the end of the season.
 
I don’t know if anyone is writing the script for ep 11 but in Ep 12 there are two scenes with Morwen and Rian and I’m hoping to do some character development that helps set up Morwen meeting and marrying Hurin soon after she gets to Dor-Lomin (i.e. her own character, which I hope will help set up why she marries Hurin). Hurin comes across to me as the biggest elf-fan of his generation so I guess it is not surprising that he falls for a woman who looks so elf-like - and dark-haired like the Noldor he loves so much). I’m thinking about what she might be drawn to in a future husband, which is where she’s at in her life at this point in Season 6.
 
We'll discuss Episode 11 on tonight's podcast.

Any suggestions for a title? In the absense of other suggestions, I plan to go with "One-handed" (Erchamion)
 
Here is the link to the podcast discussing Episode 11:


The 'steal the moon' quest story that I mentioned on the podcast is this one:

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A longer version is available here:

I also have updated the outline based on last night's podcast conversations. We've emphasized a few things in different scenes, but the real change is in the Galadriel storyline - she's alllowed to hold on to her righteous anger a bit more tightly in the new version.

 
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