Script Discussion S06E12

Ilana Mushin

Active Member
Emeldir et al leaving Brethil will be an Episode 13 storyline, specifically setting up things we need for Season 7. In Episode 12, those who visited Doriath for the wedding will be returning to Brethil.

I imagine that episode 12 will end with Beren's death and farewell to Lúthien. So, Lúthien's death will be a matter for Episode 13.

As for timeline beyond Season 6, that is not within the scope of this thread.
Are the humans who were at the wedding already back in Brethil during the hunt for the wolf? If we have the wolf news come in to crash the wedding party, we’d need to create a ‘safe space’ for the humans to return to their homes before Carcharoth gets near to Brethil. One possibility could be that the news of the wolf comes while Carcharoth is still at some distance from Doriath/Brethil - but heading in their direction. From memory, the hunt for the wolf only kicks into gear when Carcharoth penetrates the Girdle. There can be some time between the news of the Wolf and the imminent danger he poses (plus the Thingol’s guilt feelings that it was the Quest for the Silmaril that wrought this danger, and BEren’s sense that the quest has not been achieved yet while Carcharoth still has the Silmaril) I can imagine that the humans at the wedding would want to get home safely and quickly and be with their loved ones back in Brethil rather than stay indefinitely in Doriath.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
A creepy experience - you get reembodied and return to find your pervious body still lying around there partially decomposed...
I remember that happening in a movie known as Tammy and the T-Rex (or in the opening credits Tanny and the Teenage T-Rex) where Tammy (Denise Richards) and her friend Byron attend the funeral for her boyfriend Michael (Paul Walker), whose brain is piloting an animatronic T-Rex; the T-Rex is standing in the background. The intention is to steal Michael's body and force the scientist who took his brain out to put it back, however, the body is too decomposed to use (the rate of decomposition is another matter entirely since the corpse shouldn't be halfway through skeletonization a mere few hours after the brain was taken from the body).
 

Odola

Well-Known Member
As far I understand we are modelling the hunt for Carcaroth after a bear spear hunt?

While this was quite popular in my part of Europe just a few centuries ago, it also has been forbidden for the last century or so almost worldwide. Because of this it is now difficult to get much details to model it after.
What I have seen is that is usually includes a pack a specially trained hunting dogs, huge bear spears or/and hunting daggers and that sitting in the trees and using javelins is an effective [while maybe modern] practice.

Wolves - as smaller animals - were usually shot.

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If somebody wants to seach for Russian info about the process "Охота с рогатиной" is the term for it to Copy&Paste.

Another inspiration might be the Masai spear-hunting lions - but than is usually in a savanna and not a forest setting.

Or spear-hunting tigers in Asia:

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MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
Wild boar hunts can also be a reference point, in as much as a wild boar's tusks are dangerous. But I agree that lions and tigers and bears, oh my, have more in common with Carcaroth. He is, of course, much larger than a typical wolf.

Beren will, naturally, have to wield his weapon one-handed. But Thingol could offer him a new weapon from the armory, if we'd like. One can throw a javelin one-handed, or use a small hatchet-sized axe. I doubt he would deliberately face Carcaroth with a knife, but the final blow could be a stab from a large knife/short sword.
 

Odola

Well-Known Member
Wild boar hunts can also be a reference point, in as much as a wild boar's tusks are dangerous. But I agree that lions and tigers and bears, oh my, have more in common with Carcaroth. He is, of course, much larger than a typical wolf.

Beren will, naturally, have to wield his weapon one-handed. But Thingol could offer him a new weapon from the armory, if we'd like. One can throw a javelin one-handed, or use a small hatchet-sized axe. I doubt he would deliberately face Carcaroth with a knife, but the final blow could be a stab from a large knife/short sword.

There was a certain tradition among nobility to go against bears with only with a deer catcher knife [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deer_catcher_(weapon)] and some hunters are reported historically to have managed it repeately. Among those were Augustus II the Strong and some of the Russian Tsars and their male relatives. And according to some reports even some noble ladies took part in such hunts and were successfull (while some lost their lives involving in such "extrem sports") - so it seems to have been doable... A deer catches is regarded by some as a short hunting sword [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunting_sword] more than an actual knife... So something like that could be wielded one-handed I think.
But I would suppose the elves on the ground to have bear spears and those in the trees heavy javelins.

Generaly a bear spear was designed to keep the dangerous animal at distance while killing it and while some of the team going after it could have long hunting knives or axes the ones with the spears were responsible for protecting the others from being mauled by the beast during the hunt. While dogs were used to drive the hunted animal in the hunters' direction and to distract and confuse it, to divert its attention from the hunter making his/her move.

Here is a picture with an axe involved:

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this last one seems to me not a bear hunt situation but someone being surpised by a bear while in the forest

and here a nowaday controversial one - but formerly children were taught to hunt early and this was considered good parenting then:

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the tradition died out actually quite recently:
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here the best place to strike is shown - which would also be a good spot for Carcaroth to aim for - the armpit
 
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Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
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The story goes that this carving followed a killing of a bear with a hunting knife after a rare miss on the part of the well-known marksman.

It can be done, but depending on the bear it seems unwise to set out with such an intention.
 

Odola

Well-Known Member
View attachment 4630
The story goes that this carving followed a killing of a bear with a hunting knife after a rare miss on the part of the well-known marksman.

It can be done, but depending on the bear it seems unwise to set out with such an intention.
Actually, the more I think about it the more sending anyone who has just lost a hand and has not completed his reconvalescence = has not yet learned to compensate for his lost appendage by several months up to years of intensive training - alone with a dog against a huge crazy beast without the accompaniment of several spear-bearers at least commanded not to leave his side at any moment - as said hunter cannot use a spear himself due to his newly acquired impairment - seems actually to be completely irresponsible - or a deliberate attempt to get rid of said hunter - either on the hunter's own or his father-in-law's side...
 
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MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
Correct. One does not hunt bear/boar/wolves/tigers/lions alone on purpose. It is a group activity. Humans were historically good at hunting megafauna to extinction, and that involved working together. We have shown the Haladin hunting giant spiders, Tevildo and his big cats, and aurochs. The Haladin in our story are big on dogs, and definitely work together. Haleth was fine with having an inexperienced hunter come along, but someone was assigned to her, and they were meant to stay out of the way.

Elven hunting parties have more often been mentioned than shown in any detail, but again...not a solo activity. They set out from Menegroth as a group, and in our version, Lúthien accompanies the hunting party. She is, after all, the only elf of Doriath who has encountered Carcaroth before. We will need to come up with a reason as to why Beren and Huan encounter Carcaroth. Carcaroth is, of course, not a dumb beast. But he is driven mad by pain, so I wouldn't think he is making calculated plans or anything. This will be different from the hunt that resulted in Tevildo's death at the hand of Haleth's broken spear.

We do also need to decide at what point Huan rejoins Beren and Lúthien. Likely while they were in Brethil last episode.
 

Odola

Well-Known Member
will need to come up with a reason as to why Beren and Huan encounter Carcaroth.
Maybe Beren stays a little behind, as he is weaker than the elves, and now impaired, and Huan stay with him to guard him?
Then there might be some commotion around Thingol so all all elves rush to defend their king and then Carcaroth unexpectedly changes direction and just happen upon a resting Beren and the fight is done before the others arrive back?
 
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