Scripts and Script Outlines for Season 4

MithLuin

MithLuin

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It's that time again! We are finishing up the podcast sessions discussing the Season 4 episodes (with only two more episodes remaining), and we have just three script discussions left, which we will probably pick up at the end of the month.

Once we move into Post-Season, we will be submitting the script outlines from the script discussions as well as Rhiannon's scripts to the hosts for their review. Which means...now is the time to get everything together and neatly organized, and this is the place to do it!


I will be posting Google Docs of each Script Outline for anyone to comment on or edit to get them ready to turn over to the Exec Team. I will also include links to the scripts Rhiannon has shared, so that anyone may comment on them and she has a chance to make any edits she deems necessary before they are submitted.


Script Outlines will be available in this folder:

Silmarillion Film Project - Season 4 - Google Drive

drive.google.com drive.google.com

(Edit: Link should be shared so everyone has access!)
 
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MithLuin

MithLuin

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Session 4-25, our first post-production session, was held on Thursday Oct. 3rd.

During this first script review session, we focused on Episodes 1-2, while touching on some aspects of Episodes 3-4 (namely, the characterization and healing process for Maedhros).

Rhiannon's scripts for the first four episodes can be found here:

https://forums.signumuniversity.org/index.php?threads/scripts-and-script-outlines-for-season-4.3458/page-2#post-29236

Our next script review session was held on October 17th, and we focused on Episodes 3-5. We did touch briefly on Episode 6.


Episodes 1 and 2
The Hosts discussed Episodes 1 and 2 in Session 4-12.

Episodes 3 and 4
The Hosts discussed Episodes 3 and 4 in Session 4-14.

Episodes 5 and 6
The Hosts discussed Episodes 5 and 6 in Session 4-16 (May 31st).

Rhiannon's script for Episode 5 can be found here:
https://forums.signumuniversity.org/index.php?threads/s04e05-script-discussion.3307/page-2#post-27574


Session 4-27 will be held on Thursday Nov. 7th at 10 PM Eastern Time (Note: the US just had Daylight Savings Time change this past weekend, so do check your local time if it is different now.)

We are discussing Episodes 6-9.

The Script Outlines (for Episodes 1-9) are in the folder linked in the previous post.

Rhiannon's scripts are in the (current) last post in this thread:
https://forums.signumuniversity.org/index.php?threads/scripts-and-script-outlines-for-season-4.3458/page-2#post-29865

The Hosts discussed Episode 6 in Session 4-16 (May 31st)
They discussed Episodes 7 and 8 in Session 4-18.
And Episode 9 (the Dagor Aglareb) was discussed in Session 4-20 with some follow-up in later sessions.

Session 4-28 was held on Nov. 14th and we discussed Episodes 8 and 9.
Session 4-29 was held on December 5th and we discussed Epiosdes 10 and 11.
Session 4-30, our final Script Review session (and final Silm Film Session of 2019) will be held on Thursday December 12th at 10 PM ET and we will discuss Episodes 12 and 13. See the last post in this thread for Rhiannon's updated scripts!

Rhiannon continues to invite comments and feedback on all of her scripts!
 
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Rhiannon

Rhiannon

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If possible, I'd like there to be a set date by which I need to have the scripts done to turn in to the hosts to read.

A Few Notes on the Scripts:
  • Please, please, please give me feedback on them, even if it is negative. I want the scripts to be as good as possible, so if they need to be better, please tell me. Be as harsh as possible; I will not be offended. Conversely, if there are parts that are really good or things I do that you think I should do more, please let me know about those too. I am also happy to answer any questions people have about why I made the choices I made in the scripts.
  • These scripts are not at all set in stone. I am happy to change them based on what people suggest.
  • The scripts do not always exactly follow the script outlines. I tried to make note of the changes I made in the threads where I posted the scripts.
  • I have new versions of all the scripts I have written so far where I have been incorporating the feedback people have given in the threads for the individual script discussions. Once I feel the changes have been significant enough to warrant it, I will post these new versions.
  • I wrote the scripts for this season in the order 4 - 5 - 1 - 6 - 2 - 7 - 3 - 8 - 9 - 10, so there are probably some consistency issues that need to be fixed. For example, it was pointed out to me somewhere in the middle of writing these scripts that Sauron would refer to himself as Mairon, so he is called Sauron in earlier scripts and Mairon in later ones. I have tried to go through and fix this in my new versions of the scripts, but there are probably still similar issues to be corrected.
  • I am terrible at proofreading my own work. Also, especially with Episodes 8-10, I was rushing to get the scripts done before classes at my college started again, so they are full of typos. If you notice these, please point them out to me.
  • I had no experience writing with the archaic grammar I use in these scripts before I began writing them, and I am basing it primarily off what I have read on the internet (http://elizabethandrama.org/primers/you-vs-thee/ and https://www.swantower.com/essays/craft/archaic-grammar/). Please let me know if you find places in the dialogue where I am inconsistent or it sounds too modern or just bad.
  • When I am writing, I imagine the scenes as if I am watching them, so I have a pretty good idea of what the general setting and blocking looks like. If anything in the scripts doesn't seem to make sense, I can try to explain better how I picture the scene, or, I'm not a great artist, but I would be happy to try to illustrate it.
 
MithLuin

MithLuin

Administrator
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Rhiannon, I will try to keep you as up-to-date on the post season schedule as possible. The Hosts haven't set that schedule yet, though, so right now it's just in my head and therefore subject to change ;)

Right now, we are planning to complete Episodes 12 & 13 on Sept 19th. Should that happen, the first post-season session will be on Oct. 3rd. Sometime in the week before that, I would like to submit the Scripts (and script outlines) for Episodes 1-4 to them. If only 1-3 are ready, that will be fine too. So, comments/editing should focus on the earliest episodes right now, in preparation for submitting them sometime around Sept. 28th.

Depending on how many scripts they manage to get through in Session 4-25 will set the stage for how many scripts to submit in each 'batch' for review after that.

Certainly, I will try to read over the first four scripts this week and submit any comments to you.
 
MithLuin

MithLuin

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Staff member
No, no, I understand that. We will resume Script discussions sometime after your return - perhaps Fri. Sept 27th?
 
Rhiannon

Rhiannon

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I would like some feedback on the titles of episodes for this season. I still need a title for Episode 2, and I would welcome suggestions for alternate titles for Episodes 1, 4, and 8, or any of the others if someone thinks of something better than what I have. The current titles are the following:
  1. "Friend or Foe?" - This was the title associated with the outline. I'm not really happy with this it because I don't think it seems serious enough for the episode about the rescue of Maedhros. We obviously don't want to give away what Fingon is going to do in the episode, so maybe the title could be something related to the clouds Morgoth is sending up, like "Mist and Shadow" or "Land of Mists."
  2. ???? - This is the episode where Maedhros cedes the kingship to Fingolfin and Galadriel goes to Doriath. I haven't been able to think of a title at all for this episode.
  3. "Swords and Counsels" - I took this from Melian's line to Thingol about the Feanorians: "Their swords and their counsels shall have two edges." I think it fits this episode, which is about the Noldor discussing their long-term strategy and their relationship with Doriath. Actual swords and counsels both factor into Fingolfin's decision to send the Noldor out across the north and establish the leaguer of Angband.
  4. "Of Beleriand and Its Realms" - This is the title of Chapter XIV of The Silmarillion. It's okay for this episode, but it would also make a good overarching title for the season if we can think of something better for this episode. This is the episode that shows all the Noldor's realms being built and established, and it is revealed at the end that it was all seen through Thuringwethil's eyes as she spied on them.
  5. "Mereth Aderthad" - This is the name of the feast that takes place in this episode.
  6. "The Sun Doth Still Shine" - This is Angrod's reminder to Edhellos to be hopeful while she is a captive in Angband. It's "The Sun Still Shines" in my script, but I realized after posting the script that the phrase didn't conform to the archaic grammar I've been trying to use, so I changed it.
  7. "King's Ire" - This is the English translation of the name of Thingol's sword, Aranruth. I think it pretty accurately describes Thingol's response to learning of the Kinslaying, plus the sword itself makes an appearance.
  8. "The Spell of Bottomless Dread" - This is the name of the spell Morgoth places on Edhellos near the end of the episode. My one concern is that the title may reveal too much of the climax.
  9. "Dagor Aglareb" - This is the name of the battle that takes place this episode.
  10. "Builded from Sand" - This is a modified line from the "Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth." The original line is "...then all the valor of the Noldor is but presumption and folly — nay, Valinor and the Mountains of the Pelóri are builded on sand." I have Finrod deliver this in a conversation with Turgon about whether Eru will let Morgoth utterly destroy the Noldor. I changed it to "builded from sand" and used it as the episode title because, in this episode, the Noldor are reassessing their defenses, and sandcastles feature prominently in the dream Ulmo sends to Turgon and Finrod, which is loosely based on Tolkien's recurring dream of a great wave.
Some of the episode titles are in English, and some are in Sindarin. If we could translate them all, it might be cool for every episode to have an Elvish title and an English subtitle that is the translation, for example, "Mereth Aderthad - The Feast of Reuniting," "Aranruth - King's Ire," "Dagor Aglareb - The Glorious Battle." Those are the only ones I know, so I would appreciate it if someone could help translate the other titles into Sindarin.
 
MithLuin

MithLuin

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1. "Deep Breath" (or some other reference to holding your breath) - something to capture the tense situation of the Noldor not talking to each other and not trusting one another and no one budging, as well as the tension of Fingon thinking he'll have to slay Maedhros. It's not a great suggestion, but it's what I have right now. The only alternative I can come up with is "Look Me in the Eye"

I am okay with 4, but if folks would prefer "The Realms of Beleriand" or something else, that's fine.

For 8, I think that simply shortening it to "Bottomless Dread" would help.

Titles are not my forte, so if others can take this one, I'd appreciate it!

I will attempt to translate "Swords and Counsels" into Sindarin, at least.
 
Ange1e4e5

Ange1e4e5

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Swords and Counsels will likely be "Crist e ...", because I can't find a proper word for counsel in Sindarin.

For episode 2, I had suggested "Unification" (minus ? as suggested by @amysrevenge) as a nod to the Star Trek: The Next Generation two-part episode featuring Spock, but I can't find a proper word for that in Sindarin either.
 
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MithLuin

MithLuin

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There is this suggestion for "counsel" in Sindarin:
https://www.eldamo.org/content/words/word-1800704403.html?neo

goras is Neo-Sindarin, so coined based on a root in Etymologies, but not by Tolkien.

megil means sword (and shows up in one of Turin's names, for instance), so I'm happy to use that. crist means cleaver and so is also acceptable. Another option is lang, meaning cutlass or sword.

It's possible we'd want it to be "Sharp Swords and Sharp Counsels" or something like that... aeg is an adjective meaning sharp.

"And" would typically be a variation of a, ah, ath, ar, etc. Now, when do we use "a" or "ar" or "ah"? Uhmmm, got me. There are examples of Tolkien using all of these, and I'm sure there's a reason for each, but I don't know what that might be. I can guess that the 'ah' in the Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth is because it comes before a word that starts with an "a", but that's all I've got.

[e = of (en = of the)]

Sindarin grammar is, simply put, a nightmare. If you understand Latin grammar, Quenya grammar isn't difficult to follow. (And, if like me, you've never studied Latin, it's still not too bad and just takes some patience). Sindarin, on the other hand, is full of lenition (like Welsh) and therefore mostly dense and impenetrable. And on top of that, there's less information available, so there's a lot of guess work involved. One can console oneself that few people will be able to find your mistakes, but....

So, first step...make "sword" and "counsel" plural.
Megil --> Megil [yep, the singular and plural of this word are the same, just like Ethir (spy/spies)]
Crist --> Crist [same!]
Lang --> Leng [this is an unusual exception, based on the attested fang (s) --> feng (pl)]
Goras --> Gerais [finally, a word that has a normal plural! I hope...]

Now, without adjectives, we have to figure out if there's any article involved - definite or indefinite? Ie, is this a sword, a counsel, or the sword, the counsel? In English, they don't need articles (Sword and Counsel), but in Sindarin that's only true if they're names or indefinite articles. If it's the swords of the Noldor and the counsels of the Noldor...well, you see how there are now definite articles ('the') in there. So, we add the definite article (i, in = the) and get:
in megil/crist/leng + in gerais

But wait, gotta check for lenition! n before a word can trigger a nasal mutation. So....

in + megil --> in megil
in + crist --> i christ
in + leng --> in leng
in + gerais --> i ngerais

(I think at this point you can see why I like "megil"!)

So, "Swords and Counsels" could be:
In Megil/Leng ar i Ngerais​
I Christ ar i Ngerais​

If we want to say "Sharp Swords and Sharp Counsels," then we would have to add "Aeg" after each noun. Aeg would need to be plural to match the noun. So, Aeg. It stays the same, thankfully. Likewise, there's no lenition when the word starts with a vowel.

In Megil Aeg Ar I Ngerais Aeg​


That's my best bet for now. There may be errors. I don't pretend to actually know Sindarin, but at least there were no verbs in this. Based on how much effort goes into this, I'd prefer to settle on the English titles before attempting to translate them into Sindarin, unless Tolkien did it for us (like with Dagor Aglareb, Mereth Aderthad, etc)

For reference, I used Ardalambion's intro to Sindarin:
https://folk.uib.no/hnohf/sindarin.htm
 
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Rhiannon

Rhiannon

Well-Known Member
If we go with "Land of Mists" as the title for Episode 1, that's just "Hithlum." That might be too simple.
 
Rhiannon

Rhiannon

Well-Known Member
I think Episode 6 would be "Anor Sîl Eno." I tried to translate "The Sun Still Shines."

Sun in Sindarin is Anor, as in Minas Anor. It's a proper noun because the Sun is really the Maia Arien, so I don't think it needs a definite article.

Still would be eno, which appears in the phrase "ar in Ellath epholar eno vi Eressai" = “*and the Elves (?remember) still in Eressëa.”

Shines would be sîl (sil- 'shine' in the present aorist tense).

Sources:
The index in The Silmarillion
http://www.elvish.org/gwaith/sindarin_grammar.htm#present
https://www.elfdict.com/w/ar_in_ellath_epholar_eno_vi_eressai/s
 
Rhiannon

Rhiannon

Well-Known Member
"Gorgul Arnoediad" "Spell of Bottomless Dread"

I couldn't find a word that meant bottomless, but I thought "without reckoning" was a good approximation.

Dread would be gor, as in "Gorthol" = "Dread Helm."

Gûl means "sorcery," so gorgul is just morgul with gor instead of mor.

Sources:
The appendix in The Silmarillion
 
Rhiannon

Rhiannon

Well-Known Member
"Cannin Lithrin" "Builded from Sand"

Build, or make, would be car-. Passive participle cannin (I think).

Sand, or ash, would be lith. I'm not sure how to make this into the adjective "from sand." My guess would be lithren, based on angren "of iron," as in Ered Engrin. The plural of lithren, since it refers to Valinor and the Pelori, would be lithrin.

I just guessed on what order to put the adjectives in.

Sources:
https://www.elfdict.com/w/made
http://www.elvish.org/gwaith/sindarin_grammar.htm#verb
https://www.elfdict.com/w/sand
http://www.elvish.org/gwaith/sindarin_grammar.htm#adjective
 
Rhiannon

Rhiannon

Well-Known Member
Maybe Episode 1 could be called "The Laughter of Morgoth" since several scenes of Morgoth show him laughing "seeing the divisions of his foes." In Sindarin, I think that would be "I Lalaith Morgoth."

Laughter would be lalaith, like the name of Turin's sister. With the article, I think it would be i lalaith.

Since the owner of the laughter is Morgoth, the word order takes care of the "of."

For Episode 2, I think "Unification" might be giving away too much of the end, but maybe "The Dispossessed" would work. That's what the house of Feanor is called because they lose both the Silmarils and the kingship. I couldn't find an exact translation of "the dispossessed," but my best guess is "Úgaronath."

The verb for "possess" is gar-. The agental suffix is -(r)on, so I think "possessor" would be garon.

Adding the negative prefix ú- makes úgaron, the "not-possessor."

Based on "Eglath," the name for the Teleri who remained to look for Elwe, which means "The Forsaken," I use the -ath suffix to make the plural úgaronath.

Technically, it's a translation of "the not-possessors," which I'm not sure captures the sense of loss associated with the word "dispossessed," but the closest Sindarin word to "lose" leg-, which means "forget," and that wasn't what I was looking for.

Sources:
The index in The Silmarillion
http://www.elvish.org/gwaith/sindarin_grammar.htm#article
https://www.elfdict.com/w/own
https://www.elfdict.com/w/agental_suffix
https://www.elfdict.com/w/negative_prefix
http://www.elvish.org/gwaith/sindarin_grammar.htm#plural
 
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