Season 2: Episode 1 - The Awakening of the Elves
- Thread starter MithLuin
- Start date
It is a response to the Battle when it gets closer to them. When they see the wildfires (across the Lake, but still), the Vanyar invite the other elves to evacuate to the Island for safety. So, they then ferry everyone across. Among other things, this gives the elves something to do during the Battle that they are completely not involved in 
.
But as Nick points out, it will likely be able to have this conversation after you've had a chance to hear the discussion of those parts. It might make more sense then...and if it does not, we'll need to know so we can shore up the weak parts.
. But as Nick points out, it will likely be able to have this conversation after you've had a chance to hear the discussion of those parts. It might make more sense then...and if it does not, we'll need to know so we can shore up the weak parts.
No, sorry, I read your synopsis badly. You wrote clearly that the elves evacuate to the island. I get the picture, it seems reasonable enough, although since the elves see the fire on the Lake, perhaps they'd really be more inclined to move up into the mountains.
But you're probably right, I'll hold on until I've listened to your discussion.
But you're probably right, I'll hold on until I've listened to your discussion.
Nicholas Palazzo
Well-Known Member
And another!
With Atanvarno's help (Read: He rewrote it for me!), I present the Frame Opening for Season 2 Episode 1 Rough Draft...now in the correct format! Thank you!
>_TEASER_<
EXT. THIRD AGE. LOTHLÓRIEN - DAY
From high up, the woods of Lothlórien are golden and beautiful.
ARWEN, sad and troubled, stands on a high flet. She looks out to the darkness of southern Mirkwood and Dol Guldor in the distance.
She shifts her gaze west to the Misty Mountains.
.FLASHBACK. EXT. THIRD AGE. CARADHRAS PASS - DAY
CELEBRÍAN and a party of other elves from Imladris work their way through the steep and sheer pass.
A bestial cry. Orcs descend on Celebrían's party in a sudden ambush.
Surprised, the elves are not able to form up and the orcs get into the midst of them.
The orcs and elves fight and several elves fall.
Seeing their victory, the orcs subdue Celebrían and the remaining survivors. They drag the unconcious elves away.
>FADE BACK:
Arwen's eyes are full of sorrow, mourning for her mother. From behind, CELEBORN approaches her.
CELEBORN
There you are!
He looks and follows Arwen's gaze.
CELEBORN
You've chosen a beautiful spot.
Arwen masters her grief and turns to greet Celeborn.
ARWEN
Grandfather.
CELEBORN
You have been quiet lately.
ARWEN
I have felt the need to be alone more often these days.
CELEBORN
What is troubling you?
Arwen gestures to Dol Goldur.
ARWEN
The shadow is difficult to escape lately.
Celeborn sighs and nods.
CELEBORN
The shadow has always been with us, since the beginning.
ARWEN
You make it sound as though there is nothing to be done!
Celeborn smiles.
CELEBORN
It may seem that way at times. I mean that we have always had to contend with it. There is no elf who ever lived who was able to avoid facing the darkness.
ARWEN
I know. I know this darkness is nothing new. But... it seems more urgent now. And I miss my mother's guidance.
CELEBORN
It was always urgent. Even in the beginning of days, on the shores of Cuiviénen.
Arwen gives him a doubtful look.
ARWEN
But there were no orcs in those days. I remember the stories my mother told me when I was young, about the elves awakening for the first time on the shores of the lake and seeing the starlight mirrored in the waters there. I always imagined it a place of beauty.
CELEBORN
And so it was, but we also had fears and dangers to face in those days...
EXT. FIRST AGE. FOREST OF CUIVIÉNEN - STARLIGHT
The starlit forest near the shores of Cuiviénen is idyllic. A gentle wind and the background sounds of nature. In a clearing, young CELEBORN lays on his back, languid.
ELWË bursts out of the tree line, running for his life in panic. He sees Celeborn on the ground in his path and swerves to avoid him. Elwë shouts out a warning.
ELWË
(Primitive Elvish, no subtitles.)
Ā-roktā!
Celeborn jumps to his feet and runs after Elwë.
CUT TO:
>_TITLES_<
===
>_TEASER_<
EXT. THIRD AGE. LOTHLÓRIEN - DAY
From high up, the woods of Lothlórien are golden and beautiful.
ARWEN, sad and troubled, stands on a high flet. She looks out to the darkness of southern Mirkwood and Dol Guldor in the distance.
She shifts her gaze west to the Misty Mountains.
.FLASHBACK. EXT. THIRD AGE. CARADHRAS PASS - DAY
CELEBRÍAN and a party of other elves from Imladris work their way through the steep and sheer pass.
A bestial cry. Orcs descend on Celebrían's party in a sudden ambush.
Surprised, the elves are not able to form up and the orcs get into the midst of them.
The orcs and elves fight and several elves fall.
Seeing their victory, the orcs subdue Celebrían and the remaining survivors. They drag the unconcious elves away.
>FADE BACK:
Arwen's eyes are full of sorrow, mourning for her mother. From behind, CELEBORN approaches her.
CELEBORN
There you are!
He looks and follows Arwen's gaze.
CELEBORN
You've chosen a beautiful spot.
Arwen masters her grief and turns to greet Celeborn.
ARWEN
Grandfather.
CELEBORN
You have been quiet lately.
ARWEN
I have felt the need to be alone more often these days.
CELEBORN
What is troubling you?
Arwen gestures to Dol Goldur.
ARWEN
The shadow is difficult to escape lately.
Celeborn sighs and nods.
CELEBORN
The shadow has always been with us, since the beginning.
ARWEN
You make it sound as though there is nothing to be done!
Celeborn smiles.
CELEBORN
It may seem that way at times. I mean that we have always had to contend with it. There is no elf who ever lived who was able to avoid facing the darkness.
ARWEN
I know. I know this darkness is nothing new. But... it seems more urgent now. And I miss my mother's guidance.
CELEBORN
It was always urgent. Even in the beginning of days, on the shores of Cuiviénen.
Arwen gives him a doubtful look.
ARWEN
But there were no orcs in those days. I remember the stories my mother told me when I was young, about the elves awakening for the first time on the shores of the lake and seeing the starlight mirrored in the waters there. I always imagined it a place of beauty.
CELEBORN
And so it was, but we also had fears and dangers to face in those days...
EXT. FIRST AGE. FOREST OF CUIVIÉNEN - STARLIGHT
The starlit forest near the shores of Cuiviénen is idyllic. A gentle wind and the background sounds of nature. In a clearing, young CELEBORN lays on his back, languid.
ELWË bursts out of the tree line, running for his life in panic. He sees Celeborn on the ground in his path and swerves to avoid him. Elwë shouts out a warning.
ELWË
(Primitive Elvish, no subtitles.)
Ā-roktā!
Celeborn jumps to his feet and runs after Elwë.
CUT TO:
>_TITLES_<
===
Great, I'll check out the discussion! About Elwë though, this qoute about him from MithLuin is exactly along the lines I was trying to argue for. So it's slightly unclear to me why my arguments were met with so many questions. Perhaps I'm just bad at expressing myself in writing. I'm kind of convinced that we're actually on the same track but using different ways of saying it.
Oh now I get your timeline fully...
I understand that I'm coming across like a really negative guy, complaining about everything you've come up with now (and I'm not, I love a lot of it) but...(perhaps you were saying some of this in your discussion, I had a hard time hearing exactly what you said at the end of the last clip) I am not convinced that Oromë should invite the elves on his second visit, as you have suggested. The first time, everyone but Ingwë runs, and he runs as well after a short moment. Then, he (Oromë) gets back and seems a little less dangerous since he's changed his form, and the elves dare to come close to him and greet him. Now if we stop here for a moment, I think that this is the time when Oromë stays for a while and falls in love with the Eldar. He stays for some time and teaches them a lot of things. He then returns to Valinor with this love and this is crucial to the decision of the Valar to invite them. Having them invite the Eldar after just the first, brief meeting is rushing things, I feel. I heard you talking about having Oromë appearing two or three times and I agree that fewer times is better, but the important thing should be the process that leads to the invitation. If we're having two visits, then they should get friendly on the first visit already, but there's a war to be fought and I think it's right that Oromë just notices that the Children are there and rushes off to inform Manwë so that the Valar can devise protective measures for them (the Children).
I understand that I'm coming across like a really negative guy, complaining about everything you've come up with now (and I'm not, I love a lot of it) but...(perhaps you were saying some of this in your discussion, I had a hard time hearing exactly what you said at the end of the last clip) I am not convinced that Oromë should invite the elves on his second visit, as you have suggested. The first time, everyone but Ingwë runs, and he runs as well after a short moment. Then, he (Oromë) gets back and seems a little less dangerous since he's changed his form, and the elves dare to come close to him and greet him. Now if we stop here for a moment, I think that this is the time when Oromë stays for a while and falls in love with the Eldar. He stays for some time and teaches them a lot of things. He then returns to Valinor with this love and this is crucial to the decision of the Valar to invite them. Having them invite the Eldar after just the first, brief meeting is rushing things, I feel. I heard you talking about having Oromë appearing two or three times and I agree that fewer times is better, but the important thing should be the process that leads to the invitation. If we're having two visits, then they should get friendly on the first visit already, but there's a war to be fought and I think it's right that Oromë just notices that the Children are there and rushes off to inform Manwë so that the Valar can devise protective measures for them (the Children).
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Yes, I agree with your concern. We went back and forth on this, but ultimately wanted to save the invitation for Episode 2. It will be up to the episode 2 discussion to figure out when Oromë extends the invitation, but it should be *after* we see the Valar debate the idea - there's little point in showing the debate of the Valar if the audience already knows how it will end! (Not no point - it could be a surprise that any of the Valar [Ulmo, Vana] were opposed to the idea. But...)
Oromë-amongst-the-elves will also be saved for Episode 2, as we wanted to end the episode with a dramatic tableau of the first real meeting and exchange of words. I *think* the final decision was that Ingwë would greet Oromë, and Oromë would repeat the greeting back to him, and *curtain*. Another suggested alternative was to end it with the boats approaching the shore, so that we do not see the actual meeting with Oromë in this episode, just the decision of the elves to reach out to him.
Haakon, you're not coming across as troublesome at all! As I pointed out in the opening post, we didn't hammer out *everything* in this discussion, and likely still need to work some things out. Having a fresh set of eyes look at things and make sure it all holds together is extremely helpful...it is after all possible for us to talk ourselves into some bad ideas. I know you haven't gone through the full 3+ hour discussion yet, but you are working through it as Nick posts it, which is certainly as much as we can ask!
One thing we didn't talk about at all was the role of Míriel in this episode. We're introducing Finwë; are we introducing her as well? If so, what would she be doing/thinking/saying? Which scenes would she be part of? What type of character does she have? (Is she small and timid? Outspoken? A creative type? What traits will we see in Fëanor that reflect her? How is she different from her son and husband?) Atanvarno has suggested that one of our Avari spokes-elves be female, but will that make it look like the Avari who choose to stay are more the women, and the Calaquendi who choose to go are more men? We want the demographic split to be nearly even male/female, though we could have a slight preference for males leaving/females staying. Perhaps we could have two spokesmen for the Avari, one male and one female, who both have at least one line in this opening episode (perhaps one at the firelight meeting, and one at the Ingwë-don't-go scene towards the end). If that is the case, giving Míriel at least one scene to be part of will allow the Calaquendi to have a female representative as well.
Oromë-amongst-the-elves will also be saved for Episode 2, as we wanted to end the episode with a dramatic tableau of the first real meeting and exchange of words. I *think* the final decision was that Ingwë would greet Oromë, and Oromë would repeat the greeting back to him, and *curtain*. Another suggested alternative was to end it with the boats approaching the shore, so that we do not see the actual meeting with Oromë in this episode, just the decision of the elves to reach out to him.
Haakon, you're not coming across as troublesome at all! As I pointed out in the opening post, we didn't hammer out *everything* in this discussion, and likely still need to work some things out. Having a fresh set of eyes look at things and make sure it all holds together is extremely helpful...it is after all possible for us to talk ourselves into some bad ideas
. I know you haven't gone through the full 3+ hour discussion yet, but you are working through it as Nick posts it, which is certainly as much as we can ask! One thing we didn't talk about at all was the role of Míriel in this episode. We're introducing Finwë; are we introducing her as well? If so, what would she be doing/thinking/saying? Which scenes would she be part of? What type of character does she have? (Is she small and timid? Outspoken? A creative type? What traits will we see in Fëanor that reflect her? How is she different from her son and husband?) Atanvarno has suggested that one of our Avari spokes-elves be female, but will that make it look like the Avari who choose to stay are more the women, and the Calaquendi who choose to go are more men? We want the demographic split to be nearly even male/female, though we could have a slight preference for males leaving/females staying. Perhaps we could have two spokesmen for the Avari, one male and one female, who both have at least one line in this opening episode (perhaps one at the firelight meeting, and one at the Ingwë-don't-go scene towards the end). If that is the case, giving Míriel at least one scene to be part of will allow the Calaquendi to have a female representative as well.
I'm relieved!Haakon, you're not coming across as troublesome at all! As I pointed out in the opening post, we didn't hammer out *everything* in this discussion, and likely still need to work some things out. Having a fresh set of eyes look at things and make sure it all holds together is extremely helpful...it is after all possible for us to talk ourselves into some bad ideas
I think it would be possible to introduce Míriel, and at the same time make Finwë more interesting. I think she should be small but outspoken, a woman who perhaps doesn't say much but has a clear mind and when she speak, she has thought things through. I think Finwë, even though he is strong, is somewhat impressed by her, and that makes him want to impress her. I think we should contrast her and Finwë against Ingwë and his wife by making Finwë and Míriel engaged (or the elven equivalent) but not married; they are in the process of deciding on each other, for some reason the final word isn't spoken yet. Ingwë, on the other hand, should be married. This way, we not only make the two couples different, but we can put a certain amount of tension into the situation. Finwë will have to consider his choices in the context of the uncertainty of his future, he will need to guess what Míriel would want or he would have to ask her. Perhaps he even has to take into account how her father thinks. Also, if we have time to show Míriel and Finwë's wedding (perhaps we don't have time, but maybe when he returns from Valinor?), we can contrast that against his second wedding.
I have two video clips in mind when I'm thinking about the Young-Celeborn-in-Idyllic-Cuiviénen. Neither of them actually shows this kind of scene, but I figured I'd share them anyway
The first is a clip from Sesame Street (!) about how crayons are made. They begin with two little girls coloring, and then one looks at the crayon, wondering. It ends, likewise, with a close-up of her eye:
Contrast this with a similar 'how crayons are made' clip from Mr. Roger's Neighborhood - this one is much more practical/utilitarian...and much less memorable!
[If you want to know why I have a vivid memory of children's TV from the 80s, I should point out that I am the oldest of 5 children. Anyway.]
The other scene I had in mind was Will Wilberforce wandering around his garden early on a misty morning in the film Amazing Grace.
You can find that at 11:49-12:35 [right after he sings 'Amazing Grace'] in this video (it's the whole film, but poor video quality):
(For those following along at home, this is discussed in Part 3 of the videos below.)
The first is a clip from Sesame Street (!) about how crayons are made. They begin with two little girls coloring, and then one looks at the crayon, wondering. It ends, likewise, with a close-up of her eye:
Contrast this with a similar 'how crayons are made' clip from Mr. Roger's Neighborhood - this one is much more practical/utilitarian...and much less memorable!
[If you want to know why I have a vivid memory of children's TV from the 80s, I should point out that I am the oldest of 5 children. Anyway.]
The other scene I had in mind was Will Wilberforce wandering around his garden early on a misty morning in the film Amazing Grace.
You can find that at 11:49-12:35 [right after he sings 'Amazing Grace'] in this video (it's the whole film, but poor video quality):
(For those following along at home, this is discussed in Part 3 of the videos below.)
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Could we perhaps do something with Elmo here? In fact, I was surprised that the clip didn't feature him.
I'm sorry, I just couldn't help it.
Nicholas Palazzo
Well-Known Member
I remember that bit from Sesame Street. Also oldest of five, just saying.
Going to try to get another segment out when I get home tonight. If I get still another done Thursday, I should be able to get everything out on Friday.
Going to try to get another segment out when I get home tonight. If I get still another done Thursday, I should be able to get everything out on Friday.
Nicholas Palazzo
Well-Known Member
Ok, Part 3 is finished, but still rendering. Looks like it will get published when I awaken.
Nicholas Palazzo
Well-Known Member
I like this!
I like the idea that Celeborn is a kid in the beginning and becomes an adult during the course of the first episodes.
I like the set up with Celeborn connected to Elwë (as 'narrator-protagonist couple') and the idea to shift to Galadriel in the second half of the season.
Ok I get the picture of Melkor seen standing watching the elves. It could work, it could be great.
Oh: For the record, Baba Yaga is a being from slavic folklore Ouzaru... In Scandinavia, we just have like, trolls. And one or two weird forest creatures.
I like the idea that Celeborn is a kid in the beginning and becomes an adult during the course of the first episodes.
I like the set up with Celeborn connected to Elwë (as 'narrator-protagonist couple') and the idea to shift to Galadriel in the second half of the season.
Ok I get the picture of Melkor seen standing watching the elves. It could work, it could be great.
Oh: For the record, Baba Yaga is a being from slavic folklore Ouzaru... In Scandinavia, we just have like, trolls. And one or two weird forest creatures.
Nicholas Palazzo
Well-Known Member
And here:
Nicholas Palazzo
Well-Known Member
A two-fer!!!
I think it is a powerful image, but I'm not sure where to include it. At this point, I see it coming up as a flashback, perhaps after Melkor is released or during the SuperSecretNecromanticOrcProject in Angband.
(For those following along at home, this is discussed around 18:50-20:55 of Part 3 of the videos above.)
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Nicholas Palazzo
Well-Known Member
Ok, MithLuin, I have been thinking about these questions while listening and relistening to us chatter.
I do think that showing Celeborn aging up during the War to End All Wars would be a great way to help us show the passage of time there.
Míriel should indeed appear here, and I am thinking that a good place to introduce her would be on the morning after the first council. We can have a short conversation between Finwë and Elwë which Míriel interrupts/contributes to. We could show that there is at the very least a budding relationship between her and Finwë, and have Elwë express something that illustrates his inability to find that with any of the Quendi.
Just to keep this all in one place....
Here is the name of the Hunter/Dark Rider I was trying to remember:
Mbelekôro (said to be the "oldest Q[uenya] form" of Melkor, but evidently far more primitive than the Quenya of historical times) (WJ:402)
Does that sound scary enough for a name for the monster?
Here is the name of the Hunter/Dark Rider I was trying to remember:
Mbelekôro (said to be the "oldest Q[uenya] form" of Melkor, but evidently far more primitive than the Quenya of historical times) (WJ:402)
Does that sound scary enough for a name for the monster?