Season 3 Script Outlines

Because of a detour to discuss the Frame, we only got through two episodes in the script review today. For that reason, it's likely to take us three more sessions to get through them all, but we should be looking at Episodes 3-6 (and maybe 7) in the next session. The Execs had very few critiques of these two episodes. Their review of episode one focused on the concept of the Noldor desire for 'realms of their own' in Middle-earth, and what that might look like in both a pure form and in Fëanor's twisted vision with paranoia about the coming of Men. For episode 2, they discussed the fate of Earwen and Finarfin's decision to continue on with the Host. It was very important to them that the deaths of named characters in the Kinslaying tell that story - nothing that might look like an accidental death or death-by-drowning or something like that would work. So, Olwë's death looks like murder as written, and is approved. Earwen's death was re-written to clearly be the fault of Fingolfin's people, but as an enemy combatant. Not surprisingly, in an episode focusing on the deaths of Olwë, Earwen, and Irimë, the term 'fridging' came up.
 
Thanks for the update Marie. So where can we read the rewritten version of Ep 2? Is it on Google docs?

And is 7 up yet? Nick said he commented on it, but I haven't seen the link to it. (I don't say this to pressure you to rush it up, I'm sure you doing it when you can.)

Cellardur, I wouldn't disagree with you about Fingolfin, but making a sword is supposedly one of the most difficult tasks a smith can do. So if he can smith Ringil, it seems likely he can smith a crown. He might simply choose to delegate it, I suppose.
 
Yes, I have updated the Google Docs for episodes 1 and 2 to reflect Friday's discussion.

I will get Episode 7 posted in the vaguely near future. But it's not up yet, no. I will post the link in the second post of this thread as soon as it's available.
 
Faelivrin said:
Great!

Oh, I forgot to ask earlier: were the Hosts willing to move the name Hamilcar to a hobbit?
Click to expand...

The character of Hamilcar appears in Episode 4.

What was the alternate you wanted to propose? Keep in mind that there are very few hobbits in the frame this season - mostly just background characters at Bree.
 
True, but I think we're going to have a Bilbo-centric frame at some point, probably soon to judge from how the Hosts talked about the frame at the start of this season. I imagine there will be original hobbit characters, with speaking parts. We can even name one Hamilcar Bolger, or whatever the full name of Hamilcar was in the early LotR drafts. Bilbo can address him as "Hammy" (which nobody is likely to do to Halbarad's son). I'm hoping that will appeal to the Hosts.

These were the names proposed in the Season 3 frame thread:
Halboron
Halrodin
Baradir
Barathir
Thalordal
Horandir
Tharanbar
Benardhal
Halerand
Halerandin
Halgar

Haldir, Halmir, and Herendil are my suggestions. But I don't have a preference, except I'm hoping it can be Sindarin (or even Quenya). (I don't know if all of the above are Elvish.)
 
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Alright, I made some grammatical edits like adding missing punctuation and articles. I made some comments and a few suggested changes of actual meaning.
 
In today's session, they've discussed episodes 3-6.

Eöl has been cut from Season 3 and will be re-introduced in Season 4. We've also eliminated Uinen's storm. Hamilcar will keep his name until such a time as we find another better character to give it to.

So, some editing of the script outlines of 3-6 is in order, but we will continue next session with Episodes 7-10ish.
 
Sorry to hear about Eöl. Does that mean that the Telchar and black swords story is pushed to s4 as well?
 
Essentially, yes. But Telchar is still very much in this season. She will make Thingol's sword Aranrúth.
 
Not sure I can cover all of the reasons but it didn’t fit in the episode (that didn’t return to the Noldor at all) and the storm didn’t kill any known characters so the point of it would be vague. You have to listen to the session I think, check out Nick’s status link.
 
I can see why the carthagian name hamilcar seems unfitting to some people...

Of course technically hamilcar could be an adunaic name, but we know the dunedain rangers usually have sindarin or edainic names...

Maybe halandil instead? The dunedain seem to be f8nd of using the same beginnings in names of a male line... aragorns ancestors names all start with aran - or ar- , king...

So maybe halbarads family names all start with hal(ad) :
, guardian?
 
I could think of other possibilities... haladion, haldil, halion, halrin, haladir, halruin, halron, ... halandil has sometjing though.
 
Yeah, I assume Hamilcar translates a Westron name, just like the hobbit names in LotR. I think I recall some Dunedain do have Westron names (Imrazor?), but I get the impression prominent (high-status) families often use Sindarin.

hal- elements have to do with guarding in the Halethian language, but in Sindarin (according to Ardalambion) it either means "high, exalted" or "fish". I'm guessing "fish" isn't the sense here. ;)
 
Faelivrin said:
Yeah, I assume Hamilcar translates a Westron name, just like the hobbit names in LotR. I think I recall some Dunedain do have Westron names (Imrazor?), but I get the impression prominent (high-status) families often use Sindarin.

hal- elements have to do with guarding in the Halethian language, but in Sindarin (according to Ardalambion) it either means "high, exalted" or "fish". I'm guessing "fish" isn't the sense here. ;)
Click to expand...
Maybe it’s a trout?
 
Some names of the edain may indicate sindarin-edainic mixed forms, i recall jrrt indicated that for boromirs name. But just a suggestion... hallacar is a good well atestet numenorean name... or hallatan, but these are quenya, and i don't think we should give a common ranger a quenya or adubaic name when we know their chiefs bear sindarin names...

I vote for translating hal- as sindarin, for hidden, not quenya tall or fish. Names with a "hidden" in it would fit for a ranger.
 
I wonder if we could work out a Sindarin meaning for Hamilcar? Or at least a plausible way it could be a slightly-modified Sindarin name?

Some Sindarin words that start with H....

hab- v. "clothe" > 3 pers. sg. pa.t. hamp "(he, she, it) clothed" > pass. part. hammen "clothed"
habad n. "shore" pl. hebeid (SKYAP)
had- v."hurl" > pa.t. hant "hurled" (original stem KHAT; this past tense is actually listed in LR:363)
hadhma- v. “to seat” see hadhwa-
Hadhod n. “Dwarf”
hadhro n. “?doctor, leech”
hadhwa- v. “to seat”
hador n. "thrower, hurler" (pl. heidor)
hadro n. “?doctor, leech” see hadhro
hae adj. and adv. “far, very far away”
haedh n. “fenced enclosure”
haer adj. “remote”
haered n. “remoteness, (remote) distance”
haeron adj. “*distant”
haew n. "habit"
hain pron. "they/them"
hall adj. "high"
#han pron. “that”
hanar n. “brother”
harad n. “south”
harn adj. “south, southern”
harna- v. "wound"
haru n. "wound" (hist. pl. heiru, analog. hery)
harvo n. “left hand, left side”
hathol n. “axe”
haudh n. “(funeral) mound, grave; heap, piled mound”

†hawn n. “brother”
#heb- v. “to keep”
heledh n. “glass”
hen n. “eye”
hên n. “child”
henneth n. “window”
#herdir n. “master”
†heruin n. “lady”
heryn n. “lady”
hí adv. “now”
#hîl n. “heir”
#him¹ adj. and adv. “ever”
him² adj. “cool”
hin adv. “now” see hí
hîr n. “lord, master”
híril n. “lady”
hîth n. “mist”
hithlain n. “mist-thread”
hithren adj. “grey”
Hithui n. “November, *Misty-one”
#hithui adj. “misty”
hollen adj. “closed, shut”
honeg n. “brother (diminutive)”
honig n. “brother (diminutive)” see honeg
hoth n. “host, horde”
hû n. “spirit, shadow”
huorn n. “?Spirit Tree”
hwâ n. “breeze[?]”


Sindarin words starting with 'am-':

#am adv. “up”
amar n. “world, the Earth, (lit.) settlement”
amarth n. “fate, doom”
amartha- v. “to define, decree, destine”
amdir n. “hope (based on reason), (lit.) looking up”
amloth n. “uprising flower”
ammarth n. “fate, doom” see amarth
amon n. “hill, mountain with steep sides; lump, clump, mass”
amrûn n. “sunrise, east, (lit.) of the uprising”

Of course, Sindarin has lenition, so an initial 's' sound can undergo mutation to become 'h'. For instance, if you put 'the' in front of them...

#sam n. “chamber” --> i ham "the chamber"
sammar n. “*neighbor” --> i hammar "the neighbor"
saw n. "juice" --> i haw "the juice" (apparently this is more like "filth, putrescence" than "fruit juice")

Here are the words I can find with "-car" in them. Of course, being in the second position in a compound, lenition might be expected, changing c -->g. So, it's unlikely that "car" would be a separate element in "Hamilcar"
car- v. “to do, make”
carab n. “hat”
carach n. “jaws, rows of teeth”
caralluin adj. “*red-blue”
caran adj. “red”
caras n. “circular earthwall with dike, fort surrounded by bulwarks; city (built above ground)”
carch n. “tooth, fang”
carfa- v. “to talk, speak, use tongue”
#carn n. “deed”
#carth n. “deed”
carweg adj. “active; busy”

"ilcar" isn't a word in Sindarin, I don't think.
-il suf. “feminine suffix”
il adj. “*all”
ilaurui adj. “*daily”


Hmmm...so Hamilcar could maybe mean something like "The room (is) all red"? Halbarad = High tower, so it at least keeps the architectural theme going....
 
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