Season 4 Episode 12 Script Discussion

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
Still going...

Dialogue:

Of course thou mayst have time. The city must first be full wrought ere we go to dwell there. However, I ask that thou speak of Gondolin only to our father and brother and of its location to none. AREDHEL I know not its location. TURGON And its location I will not tell thee unless thou art certain thou wilt come.
The word "location" was bothering me, so I looked it up. It has been in use for quite a while, but I've determined that it seems to have been used almost exclusively as a verb until just before the 19th century. Perhaps "whereabouts" might be a suitable replacement?

PETTY-DWARF 1
The houseless, the clanless, the nameless.
PETTY-DWARF 2
The exiles, the cast-outs, the blameless.
No offense, but this feels a little Tweedle-dee/Tweedle-dum to me, and I don't love it. People just don't generally talk this way unless it is rehearsed, and since these guys are doing their very best to avoid situations where they would be introducing themselves, it strains my credulity that they worked this out ahead of time.

AREDHEL and her GUARDS ride are travelling through open land. They notice three of Amras’ HUNTERS coming over a ridge towards them. One calls out as he approaches.
HUNTER 1
Welcome, Lady Aredhel. Come with us.​

This seems ... rude, for this guy to give Aredhel orders this way. And maybe that's ok. Maybe Amras tends to attract anti-social types. But, if that's the case, Aredhel and her guards should react as if these guys are not treating Aredhel appropriately. However, given the length of this sequence, I would suggest not actually showing the dialogue, but showing the conversation from a distance, some pointing over yonder, and they all ride off together. There really isn't anything they are going to say that we need to hear.

AREDHEL
Hello, Amras! Thy work is beautiful.
The word "hello" didn't really come into common use as a greeting until the advent of the telephone at the end of the 19th century. Prior to that, people (including Bilbo, actually), did use "Hullo" as an expression of surprise (as when Gandalf shows up in Bilbo's home unexpectedly) or to get someone's attention. Even then, it still would likely feel out of place amongst the Elves.
 

Rhiannon

Well-Known Member
Thank you both for all the feedback. I'll try to incorporate as much of it as I can into Episode 12.

My thoughts on the Nauglamir, which I obviously didn't make clear enough in the script, were that Azaghal would want it given to Finrod instead of taking it back himself and that the Dwarven workers would each contribute one or two but not all of the jewels Finrod gave them to the necklace. That way, it would be a gift from both the king of the Dwarves and all the workers.

What if I just go back to my original idea for Curufin's palantir and have him trying and failing to make one?
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
The problem is that we want the Nauglamir to be made by the same craftsman whom Thingol will later kill. So, it's really too early for it to exist, and it shouldn't be made from a preexisting necklace. I hope we can show Finrod being generous to the dwarves in this episode, and show them reciprocating at a later time.


As for the palantir, a non-functional one is certainly less problematic, but showing Curufin being unable to replicate his father's work does little to showcase his skill as a craftsman and, at the end of the day, the scene is not necessary. He could be working on weapons to fight Angband.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
The problem is that we want the Nauglamir to be made by the same craftsman whom Thingol will later kill. So, it's really too early for it to exist, and it shouldn't be made from a preexisting necklace. I hope we can show Finrod being generous to the dwarves in this episode, and show them reciprocating at a later time.


As for the palantir, a non-functional one is certainly less problematic, but showing Curufin being unable to replicate his father's work does little to showcase his skill as a craftsman and, at the end of the day, the scene is not necessary. He could be working on weapons to fight Angband.
What else weapon-wise could Curufin make?
 

Rhiannon

Well-Known Member
The problem is that we want the Nauglamir to be made by the same craftsman whom Thingol will later kill. So, it's really too early for it to exist, and it shouldn't be made from a preexisting necklace. I hope we can show Finrod being generous to the dwarves in this episode, and show them reciprocating at a later time.


As for the palantir, a non-functional one is certainly less problematic, but showing Curufin being unable to replicate his father's work does little to showcase his skill as a craftsman and, at the end of the day, the scene is not necessary. He could be working on weapons to fight Angband.
The reason I wanted to have the Nauglmir given to Finrod in this episode was that the book says the Nauglamir was made for him while Nargothrond was being built, and I wanted to associate it with him being given the name Felagund by the Dwarves. If we have it made by a craftsman later, I think it should still be given to him this season, maybe in the peace montage in the beginning of Episode 13. That way, he can be wearing it at Galadriel and Celeborn's wedding.
 

Rhiannon

Well-Known Member
What else weapon-wise could Curufin make?
One of the reasons I thought a palantir would be good for Curufin to make is that it is something he would keep secret. He isn't mentioned as making anything of particular note in the book, so I thought a potential explanation for this would be that the greatest thing he makes is something he does not tell many people about.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
One of the reasons I thought a palantir would be good for Curufin to make is that it is something he would keep secret. He isn't mentioned as making anything of particular note in the book, so I thought a potential explanation for this would be that the greatest thing he makes is something he does not tell many people about.
True, he doesn't. Which for me casts doubt on what people mean when Curufin was the most like his father: He's much more cold-blooded and insidious than his hot-tempered father (compare their speeches in Tirion and Nargothrond, never mind the fact that Celegorm is the one who is said to inherit their father's oratory abilities), isn't known to make anything (his own son Celebrimbor is said to have inherited Feanor's craftsmanship by developing some of the Rings of Power), and has a grasp of the long game; his plan to unite the Elven Kingdoms through marriage (albeit in a way that would have resulted in Luthien's death) and driving the people of Nargothrond into secrecy proved to be the right thing several decades down the line (unfortunately Turin messed things up for him).
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
Curufin is a spitting image of his father. He looks just like Fëanor. Every single one of his brothers goes by their mother-name...except for him*. Curufinwë is his father-name. And it's also Fëanor's father-name. (Curufin's mother name is 'Atarinque' which means....'Little Father') He's called Curufin the Crafty, and he's certainly the cleverest of his brothers. So...yes, he should be able to make something cool. Can it be somehow forgotten to history? Sure. It could also be something that is known to history, but it's forgotten that he was the one who made it. It's mis-attributed? Alternatively, we could see him consumed by the Oath/war-effort in such a way that his personal crafting is neglected. He becomes a leader of armies rather than a craftsman, and thus his potential is lost/wasted.

*Okay, so Maedhros has a complicated relationship with all of his names. And it might be more accurate to say that most of them went by a shortened version of their father-name in Valinor, but used a Sindarized version of their mother-name in Middle-earth. Still...excepting Curufin, who used the Sindarized version of his father-name.



Back to the Nauglamir. I know that (chronologically according to the published Silmarillion), there's no serious issue with having it appear here/now. Now, in our discussions to this point, the Hosts came up with several key dwarf characters/storylines they wanted to see in the First Age. And one of those of course involves the Nauglamir. The proposed origin of it is that the brilliant up-and-coming young craftsman Zirak of Nogrod makes it as a gift for Finrod. And then, when Thingol commissions the Silmaril to be placed in the Nauglamir, the dwarves of Nogrod come with the aged and venerable Gamil Zirak to do the work. So it's all very personal and horrifying when what happens unfolds.

In order for it to happen that way, we need to keep track of a few things. First, dwarves die of old age around age 250 years. Now, if the death date of Dwalin isn't a typo, some may live significantly longer (Dwalin is 350 years old in the LotR Appendices). Also, the chronology of the end of the First Age gets a bit wonky, so there is some leniency, but the deaths of Gamil Zirak and Thingol would occur around FA 502. So, realistically, we don't want Zirak born much before FA 250. Glaurung's attack (and thus Celeborn and Galadriel's wedding) occurs in FA 260.

The other issue is that the story of the Nauglamir is a story of the dwarves of Nogrod. Up until now, all of our major player dwarves have been dwarves of Belegost. Norn is certainly a subject of King Azaghal of Belegost, and his official representative to the elves of Doriath. Telchar, while originally of Nogrod, has been living in and working in Belegost since the destruction of the 'independent' workshop run by Gamil Brog on Mount Dolmed was destroyed by Ents. The dwarves of Nogrod have been largely absent from the story, because they had no interest in meeting with or forming an alliance with the 'backwards' elves of Doriath. So, we need to have a reason for the dwarves of Nogrod to get involved. They have to hear stories about the wealthy and generous Noldo king of Nargothrond, and reach out to him to form a mutually profitable interaction. In other words, we need to build up that entire storyline to introduce Nogrod, Zirak, and their connection to Nargothrond. That's likely not something we're going to do in Season 4...though it certainly could be an early Season 5 storyline.

It is possible to suggest an alternative origin for the Nauglamir. After all, that's part of the published Silmarillion added by Christopher Tolkien as editor anyway...we have some leeway here. I suppose I just am rather disappointed by the regifting of Azaghal's stolen necklace as the alternative suggestion here. And I feel we lose a lot by disconnecting the Nauglamir from Nogrod.
 

Rhiannon

Well-Known Member
Curufin is a spitting image of his father. He looks just like Fëanor. Every single one of his brothers goes by their mother-name...except for him*. Curufinwë is his father-name. And it's also Fëanor's father-name. (Curufin's mother name is 'Atarinque' which means....'Little Father') He's called Curufin the Crafty, and he's certainly the cleverest of his brothers. So...yes, he should be able to make something cool. Can it be somehow forgotten to history? Sure. It could also be something that is known to history, but it's forgotten that he was the one who made it. It's mis-attributed? Alternatively, we could see him consumed by the Oath/war-effort in such a way that his personal crafting is neglected. He becomes a leader of armies rather than a craftsman, and thus his potential is lost/wasted.

*Okay, so Maedhros has a complicated relationship with all of his names. And it might be more accurate to say that most of them went by a shortened version of their father-name in Valinor, but used a Sindarized version of their mother-name in Middle-earth. Still...excepting Curufin, who used the Sindarized version of his father-name.



Back to the Nauglamir. I know that (chronologically according to the published Silmarillion), there's no serious issue with having it appear here/now. Now, in our discussions to this point, the Hosts came up with several key dwarf characters/storylines they wanted to see in the First Age. And one of those of course involves the Nauglamir. The proposed origin of it is that the brilliant up-and-coming young craftsman Zirak of Nogrod makes it as a gift for Finrod. And then, when Thingol commissions the Silmaril to be placed in the Nauglamir, the dwarves of Nogrod come with the aged and venerable Gamil Zirak to do the work. So it's all very personal and horrifying when what happens unfolds.

In order for it to happen that way, we need to keep track of a few things. First, dwarves die of old age around age 250 years. Now, if the death date of Dwalin isn't a typo, some may live significantly longer (Dwalin is 350 years old in the LotR Appendices). Also, the chronology of the end of the First Age gets a bit wonky, so there is some leniency, but the deaths of Gamil Zirak and Thingol would occur around FA 502. So, realistically, we don't want Zirak born much before FA 250. Glaurung's attack (and thus Celeborn and Galadriel's wedding) occurs in FA 260.

The other issue is that the story of the Nauglamir is a story of the dwarves of Nogrod. Up until now, all of our major player dwarves have been dwarves of Belegost. Norn is certainly a subject of King Azaghal of Belegost, and his official representative to the elves of Doriath. Telchar, while originally of Nogrod, has been living in and working in Belegost since the destruction of the 'independent' workshop run by Gamil Brog on Mount Dolmed was destroyed by Ents. The dwarves of Nogrod have been largely absent from the story, because they had no interest in meeting with or forming an alliance with the 'backwards' elves of Doriath. So, we need to have a reason for the dwarves of Nogrod to get involved. They have to hear stories about the wealthy and generous Noldo king of Nargothrond, and reach out to him to form a mutually profitable interaction. In other words, we need to build up that entire storyline to introduce Nogrod, Zirak, and their connection to Nargothrond. That's likely not something we're going to do in Season 4...though it certainly could be an early Season 5 storyline.

It is possible to suggest an alternative origin for the Nauglamir. After all, that's part of the published Silmarillion added by Christopher Tolkien as editor anyway...we have some leeway here. I suppose I just am rather disappointed by the regifting of Azaghal's stolen necklace as the alternative suggestion here. And I feel we lose a lot by disconnecting the Nauglamir from Nogrod.
Alright. I like having a full storyline devoted to the Nauglamir rather than it just being part of this one episode.
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
I do still want to see Finrod named 'Felagund, Hewer of Caves' and also have a reason for Mablung to be uncomfortable in his silence. There's stuff in that scene that is good as-is. I just...yeah, I want the Nauglamir to mean something more. I think that the 'gift' of the name should be sufficient appreciation of what the dwarves admire about Finrod (for this episode), and it shouldn't look like they're 'paying him back' for the work they did.

Also, Norn could be wearing the necklace he took from Mîm in this scene.
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
Here are the two scenes between Fingon, Aredhel, and Fingolfin at the end of Act I in their entirety:

EXT. DOR-LÓMIN – DAY FINGON and AREDHEL stand outside a small settlement in Dorlómin. Fingon is loading provisions onto his horse. A few GUARDS, both Aredhel’s Guards who came with her from Vinyamar and a few of Fingon’s mounted archers, are nearby, also preparing for a journey.

FINGON: A shame it is that Turgon and Idril came not with you. Long it hath been since our whole family hath been together – (thinking of Anairë) those of us in Beleriand, at least.

AREDHEL: It seemeth Turgon is ever busy these days with some new project or plan, and half the time, he is not in Vinyamar at all.

FINGON: Where doth he go? I have not seen him since father summoned us to Barad Eithel to discuss the siege. (Aredhel does not answer.) Is that why you also wish to meet with father and I there? And, if so, why must your message wait until our arrival?

AREDHEL: In a way, it doth concern the siege. But trust me, brother. With you, I am not being nearly as secretive as Turgon hath been with me. I am only following his orders, and I soon will reveal all I know to you and father, I promise.

FINGON: You were never one for secrets, Aredhel. (Aredhel nods, seeming strangely grim.) Is everything alright?

AREDHEL: I will give that answer in Mithrim. (Elrhûn comes over to hand some provisions to Fingon. Aredhel looks at him for a moment then recognizes him.) Elrhûn! Elrhûn bows his head respectfully.

ELRHÛN: Lady Aredhel.

AREDHEL: When last I saw thee, thou wert so small! And living far to the east. Did thy parents at last see the sense in coming beyond the mountains? Fingon shoots Aredhel a look, warning her that this is a sensitive topic.

ELRHÛN: My mother did.

AREDHEL: Oh. (pause) Well, I am glad to see thee again, Elrhûn.
The first scene establishes that Fingon misses his family - he's glad to see Aredhel, sad he can't see Turgon (especially if Turgon is travelling but not visiting him), and wistful about missing those in Valinor (his mother). Fingon just wants their family to be together. It also reminds the audience of the dangers of Beleriand through the loss of Elrhun's father. This is what Turgon will be protecting his people from.... And of course it establishes the secrecy of Gondolin - Aredhel will not speak of it publicly, not even in front of her companions/guards who have come with her from Nevrast.

Which brings us to the second scene.
INT. BARAD EITHEL – DAY FINGOLFIN greets AREDHEL and FINGON in the main hall. Fingolfin and Aredhel embrace. They all seem happy to be together. Fingolfin, Fingon, and Aredhel walk into a small room for a private meeting. Fingolfin and Aredhel sit on couches around a fireplace. Fingon is the last to enter. As soon as he closes the door, Aredhel begins to speak.
AREDHEL: Turgon hath sent me to tell ye of his plans for a new city, a hidden sanctuary for the folk of Nevrast.

FINGON: Where in Nevrast shall this city be?

AREDHEL: I know not. I know not even whether it shall be in Nevrast. None save Turgon and those who have gone there know, and the location they will reveal only to those prepared to dwell there forever. Once his city is built, Turgon will shut the gates of Gondolin and allow none to enter or leave and no messages to be sent.

FINGOLFIN: Wherefore doth Turgon wish to do this?

AREDHEL: Dreams, which Turgon believeth sent by Ulmo, have bidden him establish this city and preserve our people should the leaguer fail to hold back Morgoth.

FINGON: The leaguer would be far likelier to hold if Turgon were to aid in its defense rather than hiding his forces away! Fingon sits down next to Aredhel.

FINGOLFIN: Fingon, we knew when Turgon chose to dwell in Vinyamar that for the great distance between us, we could not count always on his aid. He came not to the Dagor Aglareb. And if Turgon claimeth that dreams have again guided him, I trust this. Never hath his foresight proven false, and, often, he hath seen more deeply and more truly to the heart of a matter than the rest of us. It is good to learn that Ulmo, at least, hath not consigned the Noldor to our doom, if indeed he be the source of these dreams.

FINGON: That Turgon Ulmo would seek to guide, I understand, yet why hath he sent guidance to no others?

AREDHEL: Perhaps no others have heard his warnings. Hast thou had any dreams of note?

Fingon thinks for a moment then smiles. He begins to animatedly describe a funny dream he had.

FINGON: Three nights ago, I dreamed that Maedhros was giving away swords, fine swords, like Narsil that he gave to Aegnor. But, in the dream, there were hundreds, and he gave them to all the Noldor! He gave thee seven, father, and thou hadst to carry the swords in thine arms like firewood! (pause) If a warning it is that more swords we need, I hardly think the dream necessary.

FINGOLFIN: (joking) Perhaps it is a warning to close every smithy in Hithlum. It is a waste of our time to forge weapons if Maedhros shall supply us with so many!

FINGON: Perhaps. I saw only Orodreth refuse a sword, and he was quite rude.

AREDHEL: Swords enough to stack like firewood I could believe, but Orodreth rude?

FINGON: Yea. Can we agree, then, that this dream was not a warning from Ulmo?

FINGOLFIN: (fake serious) Oh, my son. Clearly, thou hast missed the hidden warning: it is not swords, but more firewood that we need. Fingon laughs and gets up to add a log to the fireplace.

FINGON: I suppose we are quite fortunate that Turgon hath sought not the aid of his family in interpreting his dreams. (They all laugh. Eventually, the laughter dies down.) Aredhel, thou didst say the location of Gondolin was unknown to thee. Doth this mean thou wilt not dwell there?

AREDHEL: It meaneth I have yet to choose, I do not wish to leave the war, but much Turgon hath said maketh sense to me. Fingon looks troubled. Aredhel glances at Fingolfin.

FINGOLFIN: Thou art welcome to dwell wherever thou wishest. Aredhel nods slowly.

AREDHEL: I came to visit ye in case ... Aredhel looks again at Fingolfin, who pulls her into another embrace. Fingon puts his arm around his sister.

FINGON: If this is to be our last goodbye, Aredhel, then I am glad at least to know thou wilt be safe with Turgon. Aredhel lays her head against Fingolfin’s shoulder and gazes into the fire.
Corey Olsen did say that he liked this scene, and in particular, he liked the trust of Turgon that comes through in it. So, any tweaking or modifying we do must preserve that.

I think the clear place to add Fingon's objection is when he brings up his own dream - perhaps, rather than that anecdote, he could say here that if the Valar mean to send you a message, you will know, and it will be clear, not hidden in symbolic meanings in dreams. We can still bring him around to the same point of expressing that Turgon, not Turgon's family, are the ones to go to for advice on dream-interpretation. He can reject the idea of messages in dreams, while not rejecting Turgon's conclusions. And while I have no problem with Fingon's cute dream anecdote and the joking over its 'message', I will say that it takes up far too much of this meeting. If it's going to stay in its entirety, this scene needs to be much longer, and the joking needs to be no later than the middle of the scene.

"That Turgon Ulmo would seek to guide, I understand, yet why hath he sent guidance to no others?" --> "Should any of the Valar seek to guide Turgon, wherefore would they hide their meaning in shadowy messages in dreams? Surely, when the Valar wish to speak to ye, ye will know!"

To which Aredhel would reply that...Turgon does know, or says he does. This would be an opportunity for her to comment on the very different natures of her two brothers - Fingon is direct, a 'man of action' who is ever eager to leap into dangerous situations and do what needs doing (though not necessarily one to think about it first). So, yes, he needs a giant bird screeching in his face to get the message across! While Turgon...is a visionary, someone who is very much guided by his heart and thinks things over before acting. A subtle nudge may be all he needed to set his plan in motion.

Fingolfin should probably double-down on the leaguer, despite granting tacit permission for Turgon and Aredhel to abandon it. In other words, he should still say that even without Nevrast, he thinks they can hold the powers of Morgoth at bay, and that this sanctuary Turgon is building will prove unnecessary in the end.

Also, when Aredhel says "much Turgon hath said maketh sense to me," I am kinda hoping for her to elaborate a bit. What about this idea does she find appealing? Clearly not the secrecy - she's made it obvious how distasteful she finds that. And clearly not the complete severing of ties - her first impulse was to visit those she cares about. So...why does she think this sanctuary city necessary, and why would she be willing to put up with the secrecy and isolation? I want to hear her say something about that here. Especially in the context of her farewell to her brother and father - she can't give them up without telling them why she's doing that!
 
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MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
Here is the scene where the Petty-dwarves discuss their dilemma and the ultimatum put to them. We have been requested to highlight the petty-dwarves' ignorance of the plans for Nargothrond, to make it seem reasonable that they have chosen to 'wait out' the dwarves and elves by hiding in the cave. I took a first crack at adding some of that by inserting dialogue in purple. These are just suggestions, and I'm not sure they fully convey what we need here.

INT. PETTY-DWARF MEETING CAVE – NIGHT MÎM, PETTY-DWARF 1, and PETTY-DWARF 2 return to the hub of the Petty-dwarf settlement, a large cave with tables and chairs set around a communal fireplace, where most of the other PETTY-DWARVES are gathered. Mîm’s young daughter, ZÂRA, runs up to him, and he embraces her.
ZÂRA: Father, where is thy necklace?​
MÎM: Nay, Zâra, it was taken from me today by a Clan-dwarf.​
An old Petty-dwarf, who has been serving the others dinner, speaks up.
PETTY-DWARF 3: A Clan-dwarf? Here? What would they want with this place?
MÎM: Aye, here.​
PETTY-DWARF 1: More than one. Many Clan-dwarves, and Hunter-elves have come to our caves. I know not their purpose here, for they did not say.
The Petty-dwarves’ reactions range from terrified to angry.
PETTY-DWARF 2: Their purpose for us was clear, though! They have brought weapons. They will drive us out if we do not leave.​
PETTY-DWARF 4: What have we done to deserve further exile?​
ZÂRA: (softly) And whither shall we go?​
PETTY-DWARF 4: We have paid already for the crimes of our kin by leaving our clans. The Nulukkhizdīn is all we have! They cannot take that from us, too!
Petty-dwarf 2 examines the crude stone point of his spear.
PETTY-DWARF 2: Yet we cannot fight the Clan-dwarves and Hunter-elves. Even if we could defeat those here now, they would only send more. Our only hope is to leave.​
PETTY-DWARF 4: Even a lost fight would be better than to flee from our home! (He looks at his WIFE and INFANT SON.) I would rather my family and I perish in battle than slowly starve in the wilderness. Mayhap some of the honor I have lost them shall be regained.​
PETTY-DWARF 1: By the terms of exile, you know that is not possible. They despise us. What can they want with this place? There is no wealth to be found in these caves. [This is no mine?] They drive us forth merely out of spite.
PETTY-DWARF 3: Will the Clan-dwarves truly slay us if we stay?​
Petty-dwarf 1 slowly nods. Tears begin to trickle down Zâra’s face.
MÎM: Do not cry, Zâra, my dear child. (Mîm faces the crowd and holds up his right hand, touching his fingertips to his thumb.) One doth not simply walk away from the Nulukkhizdīn. Not from our home. The other Petty-dwarves nod.
 

Rhiannon

Well-Known Member
Here is the scene where the Petty-dwarves discuss their dilemma and the ultimatum put to them. We have been requested to highlight the petty-dwarves' ignorance of the plans for Nargothrond, to make it seem reasonable that they have chosen to 'wait out' the dwarves and elves by hiding in the cave. I took a first crack at adding some of that by inserting dialogue in purple. These are just suggestions, and I'm not sure they fully convey what we need here.

INT. PETTY-DWARF MEETING CAVE – NIGHT MÎM, PETTY-DWARF 1, and PETTY-DWARF 2 return to the hub of the Petty-dwarf settlement, a large cave with tables and chairs set around a communal fireplace, where most of the other PETTY-DWARVES are gathered. Mîm’s young daughter, ZÂRA, runs up to him, and he embraces her.
ZÂRA: Father, where is thy necklace?​
MÎM: Nay, Zâra, it was taken from me today by a Clan-dwarf.​
An old Petty-dwarf, who has been serving the others dinner, speaks up.
PETTY-DWARF 3: A Clan-dwarf? Here? What would they want with this place?
MÎM: Aye, here.​
PETTY-DWARF 1: More than one. Many Clan-dwarves, and Hunter-elves have come to our caves. I know not their purpose here, for they did not say.
The Petty-dwarves’ reactions range from terrified to angry.
PETTY-DWARF 2: Their purpose for us was clear, though! They have brought weapons. They will drive us out if we do not leave.​
PETTY-DWARF 4: What have we done to deserve further exile?​
ZÂRA: (softly) And whither shall we go?​
PETTY-DWARF 4: We have paid already for the crimes of our kin by leaving our clans. The Nulukkhizdīn is all we have! They cannot take that from us, too!
Petty-dwarf 2 examines the crude stone point of his spear.
PETTY-DWARF 2: Yet we cannot fight the Clan-dwarves and Hunter-elves. Even if we could defeat those here now, they would only send more. Our only hope is to leave.​
PETTY-DWARF 4: Even a lost fight would be better than to flee from our home! (He looks at his WIFE and INFANT SON.) I would rather my family and I perish in battle than slowly starve in the wilderness. Mayhap some of the honor I have lost them shall be regained.​
PETTY-DWARF 1: By the terms of exile, you know that is not possible. They despise us. What can they want with this place? There is no wealth to be found in these caves. [This is no mine?] They drive us forth merely out of spite.
PETTY-DWARF 3: Will the Clan-dwarves truly slay us if we stay?​
Petty-dwarf 1 slowly nods. Tears begin to trickle down Zâra’s face.
MÎM: Do not cry, Zâra, my dear child. (Mîm faces the crowd and holds up his right hand, touching his fingertips to his thumb.) One doth not simply walk away from the Nulukkhizdīn. Not from our home. The other Petty-dwarves nod.
I like the reference to it being a mine. I think the Petty-dwarves could make more of that and maybe allude to how their own crafting abilities have diminished. One could mention that the Petty-dwarves have found no ore of use and that the Clan-dwarves will soon discover that. Another could mention that the Clan-dwarves can make use of harder stones and metals than the Petty-dwarves.

I'm not sure they should be so quick to assume the Clan-dwarves are driving them away merely out of spite. The Petty-dwarves know they are in Thingol's land without his permission and they know that some of them are criminals. Maybe they could speculate about whether it was Thingol or Azaghal who sent this party without mentioning Finrod, further demonstrating how little they understand.
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
Oh, Norn's reaction was so extreme, that the spite thing seemed an obvious conclusion ;). But I agree that talking of Azagal of Belegost (or Laurin of Nogrod) or possibly Thingol (though do they know his name? or that he claims this land?) would be helpful.
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
Here is the passage where Ulmo appears to Turgon:
INT. TURGON’S THRONE ROOM – EVENING Turgon’s banner rests in the outstretched hand of the statue of Elenwë. TURGON, AREDHEL, IDRIL, GLORFINDEL, ECTHELION, EGALMOTH, PENLOD, DUILIN, and TALAGAND are gathered around a table at one side of the throne room, looking at a map of the land between Vinyamar and Gondolin.
TALAGAND: Perhaps we could go even further south. Down the coast then up Sirion.​
DUILIN: Your path would take us by the Falas. Do the Falathrim know of Gondolin?​
TURGON: Círdan, I have told, but no others.​
AREDHEL: Could we not just take the shortest straightest route there, the way our craftsmen have been following?​
ECTHELION: A small band could pass undetected, yet I fear the same would not be true of all our folk.​
The light in the room suddenly gets dimmer. Turgon walks over to the window and looks out. A mist is rising from the sea, and a storm is coming in. The other lords watch Turgon for a moment then go back to looking at the map or at each other. Turgon turns and looks back at his throne and the statue and banner. When he turns to the window again, ULMO is standing there. Turgon quickly steps back and kneels.
TURGON: Lord Ulmo.​
The lords of Gondolin, Aredhel, and Idril come out from around the table and kneel before Ulmo as well. Ulmo begins to speak. At first, only the sounds of the ocean come from his mouth, but they soon turn into words.
ULMO: Rise. (They all rise.) Now thou shalt go at last to Gondolin, Turgon; and I will maintain my power in the vale of Sirion, and in all the waters therein, so that none shall mark thy going, nor shall any find there the hidden entrance against thy will. Longest of all the realms of the Eldalië shall Gondolin stand against Melkor. But love not too well the work of thy hands and the devices of thy heart; and remember that the true hope of the Noldor lieth in the west and cometh from the Sea. Thou, too, art under the Doom of Mandos, which I have not the power to remove. Thus it may come to pass that the curse of the Noldor shall find thee too ere the end, and treason awake within thy walls. (The orange light of the setting sun momentarily breaks through the clouds.) Then they shall be in peril of fire. But if this peril draweth nigh indeed, (The clouds return.) then even from Nevrast one shall come to warn thee, and from him beyond ruin and fire hope shall be born for Elves and Men. Leave therefore in this house arms and a sword, that in years to come he may find them, and thus shalt thou know him, and not be deceived.​
The room suddenly gets even darker, and Turgon finds himself in the throne room deserted as he saw it in his dream in Episode 9. Ulmo still stands by the window, and he beckons Turgon. Turgon steps forward and turns to look in the niche behind his throne beside the statue of Elenwë. There stands Tuor’s armor. Turgon gazes at it, figuring out the proportions. Then, he turns and sees Idril standing beside him. Turgon and Idril blink as they emerge from their shared vision in time to see Ulmo raise his hand in farewell and turn into a column of water, which flows out the window, passing through the railing. Turgon looks across the faces of his lords then walks to the statue and lifts the banner from Elenwë’s hand.
EXT. GATES OF VINYAMAR – EVENING A collection of short scenes show the people of Nevrast leaving, house by house. Each house is led by its lord and has a banner bearing its device. TURGON stands at the gate, holding his banner, announcing each house as they pass. Each evening, it is clear that more time has passed, and Turgon’s outfit contains more white.
The ELVES of the house of the Fountain depart.
TURGON: Ecthelion, and the house of the Fountain.​
The ELVES of the house of the Golden Flower depart.
TURGON: Glorfindel, and the house of the Golden Flower.​
The ELVES of the house of the Heavenly Arch depart.
TURGON: Egalmoth, and the house of the Heavenly Arch.​
The ELVES of the house of the Pillar depart.
TURGON: Penlod, and the house of the Pillar.​
The ELVES of the house of the Swallow depart.
TURGON: Duilin, and the house of the Swallow.​
The ELVES of the house of the Tower of Snow depart. AREDHEL leads them. She is wearing the fur cape Celegorm gave her.
TURGON: Aredhel, and the house of the Tower of Snow. (Aredhel seems a little unsure. She adjusts the circlet she now wears.) Trust me, thou wilt love the tower.​
Aredhel smiles at Turgon and passes through the gate.

These two scenes, as written in the script, follow the conventions of archaic grammar Tolkien used in the published Silmarillion and in the Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth. Ulmo is the only one who uses verbs with the -eth ending, and Turgon addresses his sister with familiar 'thou' (naturally with 'wilt' as well).

Now, in the 'how will we get there?' conversation there is no instance where -eth would appear. But it is still certainly clear that the everyday speech of these characters is markedly different from the speech of Ulmo. He is coming into the picture as an ancient being and changing the tone of everything.
 
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