Session 1.4

Phillip Menzies

Moderator
Staff member
Here are the questions to consider for the next episode on Friday 25th September 2015.
In your deliberations please refer to the show notes for the overarching plot for season 1 covered in Episode 1.1 at
http://silmfilm.mythgard.org/episode-1-1-plot-overview/
  • What is to be the central story of Episode 2 ?
  • How much frame do we include in the episode and what will be the focus of the frame ?
  • How do we establish/introduce the primary Valar and their descent into Arda ?
  • This will be our first venture into inventing subplots inside the frame
 
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I'm trying to get my head around the drama that may unfold in this episode, so I've gone back to the Valaquenta. I love the way it describes the interactions between the different Valar. For instance Manwe can see further when Varda is beside him and she can hear more when he is beside her. Yavanna interacts with multiple Valar when standing like a tree she is rooted in the earth (Aule) which are also in the groundwater (Ulmo) and the winds blow through her leaves (Manwe). It paints a beautiful picture of the Valar relying on each other, intermingling and being greater when they are together and working in harmony.
Melkor on the other hand had part of all the powers that the other Valar possessed. In effect he didn't need to rely on others because he was self sufficient. He may have looked down on the others as they had only part of what he had, not realising that what they had was greater than him in that individual power. I can understand how it may have led to feelings of superiority and inferiority at the same time.
 
I'm trying to get my head around the drama that may unfold in this episode, so I've gone back to the Valaquenta. I love the way it describes the interactions between the different Valar. For instance Manwe can see further when Varda is beside him and she can hear more when he is beside her. Yavanna interacts with multiple Valar when standing like a tree she is rooted in the earth (Aule) which are also in the groundwater (Ulmo) and the winds blow through her leaves (Manwe). It paints a beautiful picture of the Valar relying on each other, intermingling and being greater when they are together and working in harmony.
Melkor on the other hand had part of all the powers that the other Valar possessed. In effect he didn't need to rely on others because he was self sufficient. He may have looked down on the others as they had only part of what he had, not realising that what they had was greater than him in that individual power. I can understand how it may have led to feelings of superiority and inferiority at the same time.
I like this. I must confess I'm still a bit confused about when we take elements from the Quenta Silmarillion or the Valaquenta, and when we use material from Morgoth's ring or sources like it. Also, I couldn't listen to the last episode live and the podcast isn't up yet and I can't find any notes. So I'm not sure where we are in the process, or how it was decided that Episode 1 should end.
But I like your ideas. They could include some of the important maiar as well, both good ones like Melian and Olórin, and future problematic spirits like Ossë and Mairon, to get some tension building (although not real conflict, just showing some differences, making way for Melkor).
Maybe we just need a little bit of frame, continuing the Gilraen-Elrond-Estel triangle, while Estel is in class trying to remember who's who among the Valar...
 
The way I look at it Haakon is, the Quenta is the bones or the outline of events. Other works such as the Valaquenta or Morgoth's Ring are the meat on the bones and give us the drama. In this case incorporate anything that speaks about the character of the Valar and Maiar and any details no matter the source that apply to the era of the first great works of the Valar in forming the world and estsblishing their dwelling on Almaren. Even if Tolkien dispensed with the idea at a later date it may be worthwhile incorporating it in some way as homage to Tolkien or as an easter egg for the fans. The Valaquenta is not a narrative on its own but tells us character information, some from Valinor (which confusingly is later in the book) and is more of a 'who's who' of the Powers unrelated to what they did. Our task is to weave that detail into a narrative for episode 2.
 
Well, it's not that I haven't read the Silmarillion. It's just that we sometimes use the Silmarillion, and sometimes not. In "Of the beginning of days" for instance, we learn that the First War began before Arda was full shaped, and "ere yet there was anything that grew or walked upon earth" (and this is referenced to in Valaquenta also when we are told about Tulkas and how he came to Valar's aid against Melkor), but we have decided that we shall have the first war at the end of Season 1. That is what makes me confused.
 
I know how you feel. That is why I asked the question (in ask the hosts) about the order of the waking of the elves which had huge ramifications for the origin of the orcs. The project has chosen to follow the Book of Lost Tales chronology, not the published Silmarillion in that instance. By making a decision about how we want the drama to unfold there are other knock on effects that we need to consider. For this episode, by making Melkor's story arc a bit more complex and not portraying him as the big baddie right from the beginning it means that we are down-scaling the initial conflict between Melkor and the other Valar and we now have to answer the question "what does that look like?"
Free your mind and embrace Peter Jackson's portrayal of Galadriel in The Hobbit :eek:
 
Here are my thoughts on what to include:
  • I don't think we need to show the Valar descending. This story should take place entirely in Arda, so the Valar will "appear" in an unformed glowing Arda and if the Valar are taken back into even more elemental form, Aule represents solid, Ulmo liquid and Manwe gas, the three of them draw those elements to them and the earth begins to take shape. In terms of lighting there should be a glow throughout the atmosphere, enough to see by, but not enough to know where the light source is.
  • In reference to my earlier post it would be good to see the Valar working together, forming partnerships and finding out that they compliment each other. Maybe this episode could incorporate the great Valar love stories, at least Manwe and Varda and Aule and Yavanna.
  • Melkor should be shown working on the fringe (remember he believes himself to be self sufficient) tinkering with the extremes of heat and cold on the other's creations and always with underlings, not equals which shows his early desire to dominate.
  • As to the frame, I am still a bit lost. There was alot of good stuff in the last podcast which can be utilised for the whole season, but until we pin down what goes into Ep 1 ........
 
Ok. Good. But we need to build drama into this. A few ideas:
Momentary, passing conflicts. Example: Aulë and his people are building land, and Ulmo and Maiar of his watery inclination expand the waters, delving into the land, which initially upset Aulë, Curumo and the others but result in caves, river valleys and other wonderful features.
Potential conflicts that will grow and erupt later. Mostly this will be connected to Melkor in some way. We could have Manwë and Melkor doing stuff together in an awkward way, not really making it work, deciding to do other things on their own.
I think we should have Melkor do some kind of entrance. Not necessarily the descent into Arda. It would be interesting though to have him descend into a group of Maiar (Curumo, Mairon, some fire spirits...) in a regal fashion, and then perhaps solve some minor conflict or help building something in an impressive way. Or bringing some light! This could be towards the end of the episode. We could have seen him earlier on, as you say in the background, but after a while he's had it with cooperation and needs to be adored, so he decides to find a following. And he does this by behaving like a king. There should be no obvious evil in this, that comes later.
 
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From the notes to session 1-4:

How do we make it look? Looking at the end of the Ainulindalë, it talks about how the symmetry of the world has now been wrecked/tumultuous due to Melkor’s marring.
  • Do we depict Arda unmarred? Do we even know what it looks like? (more conceptual than descriptive)
    • We may not ever come up with something attractive/beautiful enough. The mountains we see now are the “post Melkor” mountains.
    • Mountains might be perfectly conical. Trees might be perfectly straight. The things that make mountains craggy and interesting are absent, so it may not even be attractive (and it would like Melkor rescued us)
Why not make Melkor rescuing Arda from the Valar's bad design part of the plot? It could serve to illustrate several themes. First, it would exemplify the Valar's ignorance about how the world is supposed to look; they may have had a glimpse of the world before entering into it, but their limited view of Iluvatar's mind and vision keeps them from doing a good job without working together. Second, it would allow Melkor's nature to remain ambiguous for longer into the season, as his selfish destructiveness could be counterbalanced by his accomplishments as the most wise and powerful Vala; this could help show why the Valar are so reluctant to wage war against Melkor. Third, it could help illustrate the problem of evil, in that Melkor's evil acts of destruction bring about Iluvatar's true vision for Arda. Fourth, there is plenty of time for Melkor to get worse and worse; I could see him slowly transforming from a trickster into a full-fledged demon over the course of two seasons.
 
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