Session 2.06 for S2E02

Phillip Menzies

Phillip Menzies

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Staff member
Sorry for the lateness, but here are the questions for the next session to air in only one week from the last session due to air on Friday the 29th of July 2016.

The questions are for episode 2 of Season 2 which will encompass the journey of the three elvish ambassadors to Valinor:

1) Do we show the debate of the Valar?

2) How are the Ambassadors selected?

3) How do we distinguish Ingwë, Finwë and Elwë?

4) How do they travel?
 
If we wanted to stay elf-centric for this part of the season, would it be practical to have a flashback later to the Valar's debate? For example, when things start to get a little sour among the Elves in Valinor, someone could make a snarky (or not) comment about "well, *I* didn't think it was a good idea to bring them in the first place," then segue into a flashback. Probably hard to do without being hokey but I just had this thought.
 
It's true we don't have to stick to chronological order in order to include a scene, as flashbacks can work. We would have to have a reason to want to tell that story later, though, to do it that way. For instance, we can include Melkor's (original) trial in Episode 2, or we can flash back to it when it's time for his sentence to be up. When, later in the season, would we want to see the Valar debate the decision to invite the elves, and what do we gain by delaying sharing that with the audience?

As I see it, we get 3 Valar-centric episodes this season, while the other 10 will be elf-centric. The Valar-centric episodes would be: Episode 2 (The Ambassadors), Episode 8 (the Trial of Melkor), and Episode 11 (dealing with the fallout of Melkor and the feud of Fëanor and Fingolfin). Since they were our main characters for an entire season, I don't really want to take these episodes away from them, as long as it still moves the story of the elves forward.
 
We've written something about this already on page 2 of the S2E01 thread. I sketched an idea of how the ambassadors could be chosen there.

I think we need to have to have some Valar-centric episodes this season, or at least parts which are shown from their perspective.

I think Ingwë should be a serious, clearheaded man who is pretty certain of his goals, and also very sure of himself. He is happily married.

Finwë should be a passionate guy, full of heart and love but not very strategic, far from a thinker. We should see the impulsiveness that Fëanor has to a greater degree.
(Later, he makes a lot of bad decisions because his brain is blocked by his heart. He is filled by and trapped in his own tragic melodrama.
He also clearly is a person who has a problem with being alone. He longs for Elwë. He marries Indis - the only second marriage in elven history. He joins Fëanor in exile. Loss seems to have a great negative impact on his judgement.)
When Ingwë volunteers to be ambassador, Finwë should feel that an honor is given Ingwë that shouldn't be his alone. He wants to share it, and this feeling is strengthened by the fact that he loves Míriel and wants to impress her. He makes it clear that Ingwë can't go alone, as he's just the leader of the Fair ones.
Elwë is impressed by Finwë's daring move and also volunteers, as a representative of the Third tribe. This is generally accepted since many of that group are uninterested in leaving. Elwë is a social guy, who has tied a small group of elves around him. He is unmarried of course, so although he and Finwë are great friends, he is the third wheel when Míriel is around.
 
The scene I always wanted to include is Mandos saying "So it is doomed". For that reason I would say yes show the debate but I agree with MithLuin to do it at the beginning of episode 2 as a flashback. In general I feel that season 2 should be elf centric and therefore have a minimum of scenes without elves in it. We know the valar already and we can read their motivations from their small involvement in the episodes.

The text says that Orome selected the representatives and I would show the three as being outspoken and the ones that naturally choose to represent their people and appear before Orome without fear of the hunter. They have to be natural leaders and consider that the elves may not have invented any form of government at this stage, hell, how does the concept of an hereditary leadership passed on from generation to generation even begin in a race of effectively immortals? There is nothing to pass on as the bearer of the role does not!

As to the travelling, I feel the ambassadors should be away from Cuivienen for a long time, years in fact. So many years that more generations are born and the idea of the ambassadors almost becomes myth. This will give the opportunity for abductions by the dark hunter to continue and suspicion of the valar to get a foot hold and continue as more than half the total number of elves end up refusing the invitation. I would like to see the journey of the three be one of discovery as they travel overland (on separate mounts). Remember the valar have never had to "take" others on their journeys before so this needs to be the beginning of slow travel with beings with flesh and blood. Traversing the ocean could be done by Ulmo and his retinue. Maybe as the journey goes on more and more Maiar join the group. This is going to be a big deal and there will be a considerable amount of fanfare and hype involved as the ambassadors get nearer and nearer to Valinor. I can envisage a huge celebration when they finally arrive and they are knocked off their socks by the welcome. We could show a montage of the time they spend there which can visually show the deepening friendship between Finwe and Elwe and also show Ingwe gradually being drawn to Manwe and Varda on Taniquetil and really just ignoring the other valar.

I am also considering that this content n its own will not provide a real story with tension and conflict. Maybe the story needs to continue back in Cuivienen with the dark hunter. This will also give us a chance to introduce another elf and this can slowly reveal more information about the mysterious dark hunter, maybe a better look, a trinket dropped that means something to the audience, an escape by our new elf character (Cirdan?) and the showing the dark hunter entering Angband and possibly revealing to the audience that it is Mairon.
 
I am growing increasingly reluctant to showing scenes from Angband - especially since we are making the season mostly from elven perspective. I'm afraid that there is a risk of scenes showing 'the bad guys' becoming really bad when there's basically no material to base those scenes on. They will have to be very short, I think, preferably without dialogue.
 
Agreed with including "So it is doomed," and that fits best here at the beginning of episode 2.

Apparently I forgot to post this yesterday:

As for the debate of the Valar...are we going to show Melkor's trial? At some point, we are going to have to introduce the villains (explaining the mysterious Hunter), and thus this seems a good time to get back to that. If we don't show it, a reference to Melkor being imprisoned in the Halls of Mandos and a brief shot of his...cell...might be called for. Also, when are we going to check in with Mairon (Sauron) and Gothmog in Angband? Should that happen in Episode 2 or wait for later?
 
Questions for next time:

1) Flesh out the debate - what are the primary arguments for leaving/staying? Who makes them? What is the personal background?
2) How do we handle the Avari?
3) Do the Valar stay out of it? Do they have catspaws? Are there spies?
4) Is this an entire episode of People Talking? Or do other things....happen? Is this a full scale rebellion? Is there a council?
5) How do we introduce Mairon and Gothmog in this season?
 
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