Session 2.08 for S2E04

Phillip Menzies

Moderator
Staff member
Questions for the next session 2.08 due to air on Friday 26th of August 2016 are:
  1. We plan to cover the split of Lenwe and the Nandor, Thingol meets Melian, the Sindar stay to look for him and the Vanyar and Noldor get to Valinor. Can we do all of this in one episode and how?
  2. Why do the Nandor leave? Are they Avari who come to their senses, is there a rift or some other reason?
  3. How do the Teleri respond to Elwe's disappearance? Do they think he was taken by the Dark Hunter and embark on a rescue mission? How does this affect Olwe, Cirdan and others who continue the journey?
  4. How do we depict Thingol and Melian in a way that is good on screen?
  5. What will we emphasise about the arrival of the Vanyar and Noldor in Valinor?
 
The episode should be about the sundering of the elves as a continuation of the debate.
We could show the elves leaving Cuiviénen, but I suggest that we either don't show it or do it very briefly (the Avari left behind never return to our story, except for Eöl, who probably left on his own during the debate or won't show up to say goodbye when Ingwë and the others leave). Instead, I suggest we begin the main story of this episode when the Teleri have started to lag behind. They are in the valley of Anduin or close to that area. They've just traversed the sea of Rhûn by building small ships (Círdan!). Elwë and his closest family and friends (Olwë, Círdan, Beleg, Daeron and Mablung - named or not named) want to press on, since the Noldor are far ahead, not to mention the Vanyar - who knows how far they have come? Oromë left a year or so ago and nobody knows when he will show up again. But some of the Teleri are complaining and voicing issues similar to those of the Avari during the debate. Close by are Misty Mountains, and they make some of the elves afraid. Elwë decides to Journey ahead on his own to find the Noldor. He wants to speak to Finwë. ('Again?', Olwë wonders.)
While Elwë is gone, Lenwë and a small group return from scouting. They are excited. Lenwë says he's found walking trees. He really wants to find out more about them. Perhaps the trees can talk as well? He says he will stay in Middle-earth and find out. The elves who are afraid of the Misty Mountains say they would much rather follow him than continuing further west. A group of elves leave with Lenwë.
Olwë lead the Teleri westward, and pass into Beleriand. He sends a messenger ahead to the Noldor to notify Elwë that they are close behind now.
(This is probably where we should show Elwë meeting Melian... I'll have to give that some more thought)
Elwë is missing. This makes the whole Teleri clan paralysed. They don't know what to do. Some of them will probably want to give up the Journey completely. But Olwë and Círdan decide together that they should send out search parties.
Meanwhile, Ulmo summons the Eldar to the coast, and the Vanyar and Noldor board the island ferry. We see them leave.
I think we should end teh episode there, and wait with the arrival in Valinor until the next episode. That way, we make this episode all about sundering.
 
This has been the episode I have been the most concerned about from the beginning of this season. It will be very difficult to hit all of our beats and still convey all of the emotional weight.

The question is inevitably going to be "Why does the viewer care?" Especially about the Nandor. It will be very important to have Lenwë, Olwë, and Cirdan figure prominently in episode 2.
 
Thingol and Melian onscreen. The execs have joked several times about how to do this without it being silly. Here is my first approach.


I think we should give a good leadup to the scene. Elwë is travelling through the woods with a small party. They want to stop, and he mentions that the Noldor camp is nearby and he wants to press forward. For some reason, they let him go on alone. As he travels, he hears nightingales in a dark wood. Curious, he ventures into the wood and approaches a starlit glade. When he sees Melian, he halts in surprise. He makes some sort of sound though, because she turns and sees him, looking surprised. Cautiously, he approaches her and she waits for him. When he catches her hand, they both freeze, staring into each others eyes.

*cut scene*

We go back to the elves Elwë left behind. They eventually make it to the Noldor camp, and naturally ask after Elwë. No one has seen him. Cue some panic and searching, but it is fruitless.

*rest of the episode*

After everyone has made their decisions about what to do, we get a brief shot returning to the starlit glade showing the two of them standing still as statues with nightingales singing. It's, like, a 5 second scene.

*roll credits*

Whenever we want to show Thingol returning to the Sindar (I forget what episode that is in) we can show them snapping out of this trance, or just have him reappear with Melian. Either way, we do *NOT* show like 15 minutes of frozen!Thingol on screen, and we do not show Thingol frozen while Melian goes about her business. They are frozen together, and it takes up almost no screen time, only being shown 2-3 times.

Is this acceptable?
 
Admittedly, freezing one character on screen can be a joke, not a serious moment. I can't really think of any examples outside of sci-fi/fantasy/anime because of the strong magical component involved in freezing time like this. Here are some serious examples.

Harry Potter has the Petrificus Totalus spell. Hermione uses it on Neville in the first film, and on the Death Eater Dolohov in the last film (well, Deathly Hallows Part 1, anyway). The frozen character has essentially no further part to play in the scene - it's like they've been hit with a stun gun. It is possible they are still aware, though.


The operative in Serenity also manages to freeze people so he can monologue and then kill them, but in a non-magical way.


Rolo from Code Geass is able to speak and act while others are frozen in place. This can be used for assassinations or more subtle tricks. Without the background, the emotional impact of these scenes is likely lacking - there's a lot of double dealing and deception in this story.


And there is (of course!) a Star Trek episode dealing with this. The crew of the Enterprise encounters 'temporal anomalies' that cause whatever is within them to freeze for a time. Naturally, some people are frozen and some are not. There is suspense and a mystery to unravel...oh, and if they don't figure it out, everyone dies.
Clips from Star Trek: The Next Generation "Timescape"

Also, in the final part of Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell, there is a scene where Childermass is frozen in place by the Raven King. Nobody dies!

You can see the scene play out about 10 minutes into this collection of clips. As you can see, they are intercutting several parts of the story at this point, so we keep returning to see Childermass and the hanged Vinculus while hearing voiceover from the magicians (Strange and Norrell). This is building to the climax of the film. I seriously doubt we're going to portray Melian as *ominously* as the Raven King appears here, but other aspects of this portrayal may be relevant.



What nearly all of these scenes have in common is the tension of a fight scene and/or impending death. We will....lack that tension. I think that portraying Melian as ominous or dangerous is okay to a point, but only in the sense that falling in love changes your life, not in the sense that we should have the audience thinking she's going to kill him. Avoiding making it look silly is one thing; avoiding making it boring is something else. If we portray Melian as freezing Thingol while remaining mobile herself, that will imply that she has cast a spell on him and that he is under her enchantment/power. I think we want to avoid that implication, so having them both 'caught' in the spell makes it more mutual. I think if only one person is frozen, the audience will expect the other person to do something significant in the interim. We have nothing for Melian to do, and so she should be frozen as well.
 
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This is all about how we do it. I think it can be done well, but there are of course pitfalls.

What do the audience need to know? Elwë is wandering and then sees something. The audience doesn't need to know that it's Melian right away. There should be cuts back to the other elves, and I think that elves like Olwë should have more screen time than Elwë. If we reveal Melian after we've seen the other elves search for him, it's a way of making the audience wonder without having Melian in a dark shape and a grim look to make tension.
 
I think we should give a good leadup to the scene. Elwë is travelling through the woods with a small party. They want to stop, and he mentions that the Noldor camp is nearby and he wants to press forward. For some reason, they let him go on alone. As he travels, he hears nightingales in a dark wood. Curious, he ventures into the wood and approaches a starlit glade. When he sees Melian, he halts in surprise. He makes some sort of sound though, because she turns and sees him, looking surprised. Cautiously, he approaches her and she waits for him. When he catches her hand, they both freeze, staring into each others eyes.
Why would Elwë want to press on by himself, though? Why wouldn't the others join him? What if Elwë is seperated from his party by a storm or bad weather, and when it has passed he finds himself in the dark wood. And then he hears the singing of the nightingale.
Or the party could be surprised by a thick fog and lose each other. And then Elwë hears the nightingale in the fog and follows the sound, and as the fog lifts he finds himself in a clearing in the woods, where he suddenly faces Melian. They are both surprised, maybe the fog was some kind of protective measure on her part and she didn't think anyone would come through.
 
Agreed that those are both better reasons to separate them! I think we do want to portray Elwë as having to urge his companions to keep going, as he is most impatient to reach the end of the journey, but you're right that they shouldn't abandon him. I wanted to make it somewhat plausible that they wouldn't know where to look for him, so he has to be on his own for quite some time. If they just stopped to rest, and he went to fetch water and never came back....they would have to be right in Nan Elmoth when it happened.

I mean, we know Melian is skilled at making magical barriers that keep people out, so they could be protected/invisible to the searchers even if they walk right by. But I would rather there be some plausible reason to have a very wide search area, which involves Elwë being separated from his companions for days rather than just a few hours. A storm that drives them apart works - the other elves stumble into the Noldor camp and we have a 'what, he didn't make it?' moment.

I also agree with Hatleking that intercutting between Elwë/Melian and the other elves (Elwë's companions) will be essential, which is the main comparison I wanted to make with the Childermass/Raven King scene from Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell - perhaps I should find a video that has all of those clips as they appear in the show, with the other scenes in between.
 
I don't know if this sounds cheesy or not, but perhaps supplement (or precede?) the instantly being frozen with a meeting of the eyes as (or before) their hands touch, with the camera starting with Elwë's and then switching to Melian's and doing a sort of plunging zoom into them, where a soft light grows and intensifies to a light akin to that of the trees. When their hands touch, possibly a zoom in of that, too, with a distortion of sound (as in nightingale music in the background suddenly blends/harmonizes/deepens/echoes), before going again to their faces, one looking into the other, then a fading zoom out to show them as an onlooker would see them, with the nightengale music back to normal. (So what transpired between them is on a different register to anything else going on around them). Then the scene shift.
 
I'd like to suggest something here concerning Melian's magical barriers. We know that Beren pushes through her barriers because of the fate that is laid upon him. Most likely by Iluvatar. What if the same is true here? What if the Elwë's companions are separated from him because he gets through the barrier following the song of the nightingales, whereas the others do not?
 
I'd like to suggest something here concerning Melian's magical barriers. We know that Beren pushes through her barriers because of the fate that is laid upon him. Most likely by Iluvatar. What if the same is true here? What if the Elwë's companions are separated from him because he gets through the barrier following the song of the nightingales, whereas the others do not?
Yes that's kind of what I'm thinking. But how do we show such a barrier? What does it look like?
 
Yes that's kind of what I'm thinking. But how do we show such a barrier? What does it look like?
How about seeing Elwë's companions—from inside the glade, as if through frosted glass—running past looking for him, then switching to their POV and not seeing the glade at all? So from their POV there's just another clump of trees with no Elwë. Maybe switch back and forth a time or two to make it obvious what's happening.
 
How about seeing Elwë's companions—from inside the glade, as if through frosted glass—running past looking for him, then switching to their POV and not seeing the glade at all? So from their POV there's just another clump of trees with no Elwë. Maybe switch back and forth a time or two to make it obvious what's happening.
Yes that's one possibility, if we let the others come that close. And why not, it's a clear image showing what is happening - that 'magic' is involved.
 
Now that I think about it, there is a Star Trek scene where Picard has a romantic interlude while trapped in a cave with a woman who can 'slow time' for them. I think this was in Insurrection? And there are two scenes - one where it's just romantic, and one where someone's life is in danger. The whole movie is about time and aging.

Yep, here it is, at the 2 min mark:

Obviously, this isn't what we're trying to do - we want them to freeze while time goes on around them, not have the world freeze while they continue to move.
 
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That can be done easily in a short sequence where the camera rotates around them for about 30-60 seconds. They remain still, or hardly moving, while the world around them speeds up.


I realize we don't have a day/night cycle or seasons, but we could certainly show motion and growth around them.
 
How do the Teleri respond to Elwe's disappearance? Do they think he was taken by the Dark Hunter and embark on a rescue mission? How does this affect Olwe, Cirdan and others who continue the journey?
The large part of the Teleri are making the Journey because of Elwë and what he has said. They will be concerned when he disappears but will rather wait than proceed without him, regardless of how long it takes. Some will follow Olwë and will want to press on to the coast. These will later be Olwë's people in the West, or maybe some of the Falathrim. But Olwë will want to find his brother, so he will be reluctant to press on. I think he blocks further movement westward at this point, even if some of his closest advisors and friends could argue that they indeed should move on.
 
Have you ever looked at the ocean from a plane? When you are far enough away, the waves seem frozen. There might be something we can do with that.
 
Perhaps most of the searching for Elwë will be in the next episode but in any case, I'd like to at some point see Beleriand from above - not as a map, not from that high up in the sky, but from a mountain, so we can get a picture of what it looks like or at least get the feeling of its vastness, of different regions and biotopes, its rivers and so on. A search party could be standing on the slopes of the Blue Mountains. They could discuss different ideas on where to look for their lost leader.
From that we could move with the camera to Nan Elmoth, showing where Melian and Elwë are and that no one had the idea to look for him there.
 
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