Session 2.10 for S2E06

Well, obviously, we want a chance to get to know Indis before we set her up with Finwë. We want the audience to see her as a good person, and not an opportunistic homewrecker. In order to get to know her, we need scenes with her before Míriel dies. Making her friends with Mahtan is possible, but doesn't sound very likely. Míriel seems like a much more likely candidate for a friend to Indis. We don't have to show her and Finwë having interactions beforehand at all.

As to the "take care of my boys" issue... I'm not a fan, but perhaps trimming it down to a request to look after Fëanor himself, which would easily put Finwë and Indis in proximity. What might be interesting is if we started the episode with Finwë in Lorien by himself, visiting Míriel's body, and end it with Fëanor doing the same.

This gives us another chance to show the grieving husband in a way that can't be construed as a plea for attention (which "Oh pretty friend of my dead wife, I'm so sad my wife, your friend, is dead" could most certainly be).

He could even react negatively to Indis visiting his son at first..... which as I think about it, might be the best route to go. My concern about this episode, structurally speaking, is that the main conflict (does Finwë remarry) might get wrapped up too quickly.
 
Nicholas Palazzo said:
As to the "take care of my boys" issue... I'm not a fan, but perhaps trimming it down to a request to look after Fëanor himself, which would easily put Finwë and Indis in proximity. What might be interesting is if we started the episode with Finwë in Lorien by himself, visiting Míriel's body, and end it with Fëanor doing the same.
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I like both the symmetry of the two visits, and the clarification of Miriel's request to Indis. If she sees her role (and maybe others, like Feanor, can as well) primarily as providing a nurturing role for Feanor, that complicates the emotional dynamics... maybe even giving her a storyline in this episode? As she wrestles with her own competing feelings and loyalties? While we want the audience to like Indis, and see her primarily as a good person undeserving of Feanor's resentment, having her make the decision to follow her feelings/take this unheard of step with Finwe WITHOUT prior approval of Miriel is a stronger character moment for her.
 
I understand why Trish brought up the 'giving permission' storyline of a dying wife blessing the future union of her widowed spouse and friend. This permission is what stops the future actions from being a betrayal of their friendship, and as such...is important.

There's a lot of reasons I am not comfortable with having Míriel do that prior to her death, though. It's taboo, so she would be suggesting something shocking/illicit/unheard of, not a simple 'take care of him, would you?' This would be more akin to one of the characters on The Walking Dead approaching a married couple and asking if she can join the marriage to make it a 3-some. [With the difference being that we have several different words for threesome in our language - polyamory and menange a tois - whereas the elves wouldn't even have a word for 'remarriage'.] Also, no one understands that Míriel is dying. They know she is very tired, and not getting better, but you'd be shocked too if your friend with chronic fatigue didn't wake up one day...and we're mortal humans who know to expect deaths from sickness. Míriel's death, in the peace of Valinor, should be deeply unsettling and upsetting to the other elves, not 'anticipated'. Her decision not to return is also unusual and unprecedented (though perhaps not unique to just her).

BUT, there's a way around this. Míriel is dead, yes. And her spirit is hanging out in the Halls of Mandos (which is mostly off-limits to us). But the Valar can talk to her. They will, in fact, ask her permission for the marriage of Finwë and Indis to take place. She can then, at that time, express her wishes concerning wanting Fëanor to have a mother and Finwë to have a wife...but it can't be her, because she is never going to be re-embodied again. And when she makes that promise, giving Finwë permission to be with Indis...that will achieve everything we want the 'take care of my boys' line to achieve, but be a unique and much more culturally appropriate way of doing it.

Most dying wives can't speak from beyond the grave. Míriel can. Let's save her 'giving permission' for that time.
 
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Loved the discussion here, it is resolving mostly the way I would have liked.

My biggest concern is this (something related has been hinted at, but not this one): we have one very prominent case in geek fandom of a new mother dying from sadness (or other related non-physically obvious means), and it really didn't work. We do NOT want even a millisecond of thought in our audience in the direction of "Oh, now Miriel's gone all Padme on us?" The closest we want this parallel to be drawn is "Man, why couldn't Lucas have done a sad mom dying as well as SilmFilm did?"
 
One thing the Star Wars prequels did was to....kinda suddenly shoehorn her death in? This is a world where people can be cut in half and still survive. Anakin has multiple limbs sliced off and is set on fire in this film, and he wakes up as Darth Vader. Padme, on the other hand, seems to have received no medical care during her surprise pregnancy. There was nothing wrong with her, until her husband tried to strangle her. She survived that, but then 'lost the will to live' and died immediately after giving birth, but not from any complications with the birth? That was asking the viewer to buy a lot and give serious credence to her line, 'Anakin, you're breaking my heart!'

*sigh*

Whether or not we avoid that will depend on how this plays out and how much the audience is willing to buy into.

One thing we are doing differently is giving some buildup. Míriel is experiencing an unusual pregnancy that is causing concern. She is putting too much of herself into the baby, and characters on screen are discussing this worriedly. If anything, the audience might expect her to die in childbirth. But, no, she survives! But...all is not well. We see her waning/never recovering, being too weak and tired to care for her child. So, after all that set up....it shouldn't be a case of 'oh, hey, surprise death!'

Doesn't mean we'll get audience acceptance, but there is at least a chance we will have prepared the audience to accept this. Also, we will have time to focus on the mourning of the characters who lose her, so it won't just be a 'welp, that's tied up then.'
 
Something else I'd really like would be subtle setups for parallels between Feanor, the greatest of Elves, and (eventually) Turin, the greatest of Men. Especially if they have similar demeanor as very young children (I'm imagining Thingol being constantly delighted and amazed by young Turin at every turn).
 
I agree, there should be parallels, and beyond what's already in the text (fiery tempers, amazingly handsome). Since Turin, so far as I remember, has no crafting whatsoever, we'll have to think about what the parallels should be...

Perhaps a skill with languages? Turin will interact with many different sorts of people, and apparently without and linguistic barriers.
 
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