Perhaps the attack should begin earlier. It should be a big affair and start before the Noldor arrive.n behind.
Episode 8 Ship-Burning. Beginning of the Helcaraxë passage.
Episode 9 Attack on Beleriand. Attack on the Havens. Death of Denethor.
Perhaps the attack should begin earlier. It should be a big affair and start before the Noldor arrive.n behind.
Episode 8 Ship-Burning. Beginning of the Helcaraxë passage.
Episode 9 Attack on Beleriand. Attack on the Havens. Death of Denethor.
I really don't see Mando's Prophecy of the North (and departure of Finarfin) filling up a whole episode, or the Burning of the Ships (and return of Finarfin to Valinor) getting it's own entire episode, for that matter. I think those plot points would fit together just fine into a single episode, with plenty of breathing room even then. Or, if they're to be separated, use the rest of the time in those episodes to further the action in the First Battle of Beleriand.
I agree with Xagzan and Nicholas Palazzo that Denethor's death needs to be moved up ahead of Feanor's. I think the First Battle and the Second Battle are being treated too concurrently, as if they're two fronts of the same offensive movement, when they're quite separate in the book. The First Battle as described in the Silmarillion consisted of a west front and east front. Thingol and Denethor took on the eastern army and utterly defeated them, though with heavy loss to the green elves. The dwarves of Mount Dolmed mopped up the retreating orcs, with only very few orcs escaping. After Tingol got back to Doriath, he heard the bad tidings from the western front, where Cirdan had been driven back and besieged at the havens. Thingol then summoned his people to congregate in Neldoreth and Region, and Melian put up the Girdle at that point.
According to the Grey Annals, it's not until seven years later (by the later reckoning of the sun) that Feanor shows up in Lammoth. The Silmarillion doesn't give the timeline, and for our purposes, it almost certainly shouldn't be happening YEARS later, anyway, but clearly some time has passed before the Second Battle begins. At that point, the forces besieging Cirdan are drawn back to the north to fight Feanor, while fresh armies come from Angband, and all but a "handful of leaves" are left of the orcs after ten days of fighting.
In our timeline, we basically have some limited orc incursions occurring in Doriath, repelled without much trouble, though it sounds like the western front of the First Battle is also going on at this time. Then Feanor shows up and we have the Second Battle followed by his death. THEN we have the eastern front of the First Battle occurring? We don't necessarily have to follow book chronology, I know, but I feel Feanor's death is happening far too soon in the current outline. He's kind of a primary protagonist this season, can't we hang on to him until the second to last episode or so?
Just one more thing. I don't think anyone has mentioned Telchar yet, but he definitely needs to make an appearance when Thingol calls on the dwarves to forge weapons.
I agree that Fëanor going down in a flurry of balrog whips after his companions have died is one of those moments TV shows like to cut away from for suspense purposes.
And even if we see the cavalry arrive in the form of his sons saving him....starting the next episode with the retreat carrying his badly wounded body works. Because his death scene should be a quiet moment, removed from the battle field. He's going to make them all re-swear the Oath and then his body bursts into flames and he dies. I mean....
One thing I liked about the Beleriand plotline as mapped out is that it has a steady progression and a back-and-forth between the good guys and the villains. I think that if we choose to integrate the Noldor and Beleriand plotlines a bit more or move up Denethor's death, we should still preserve that.
Episode 13 should definitely contain the first glimpse of the Sun and the march of Fingolfin's host to the gate of Angband. So, the first half of the episode should be Maedhros' capture and the downward spiral of that. But the set-up should all be in Episode 12 (the offer to parley, and the debate where they decide what to do).
So, this is something I was trying to point out in the session. Fëanor does not die in battle. He is mortally wounded. He seems to live on for quite a while. His sons drive back the balrogs and the Noldor make an orderly retreat up into the mountains. I think that we would be better off having him wounded in one episode, and dying in the next.
I have to admit to some reservations about this. Though they make the trek back to Mithrim, in the book the whole chain of events only take up a few lines. The emotional impact there is really confined to that small space, quick and concise.
If we start stretching it out or dividing it up over episodes, I think you risk diluting that impact. Heck, this might even be a case that warrants some creative license, where we condense it so that he does die near where he falls, to sort of mirror the rhythm the events have in the book, if not completely the accuracy. Because the longer it drags out, the more it becomes kind of "will he live" question of suspense, when that's really not a factor in the story.
And audiences are smart. Once he's mortally wounded, I think they'll be able to sense the correct outcome. To delay it, only then to confirm it anyway, I don't think viewers would be take too kindly to that.
There will be a good chunk of the (hypothetical) audience who will think there is no *way* we are killing Fëanor. Fëanor's death is probably one of the biggest shocks in the story. You get all this build up of his mission for revenge, and here, in the very first real battle, when he hasn't even *seen* Morgoth yet, he just...dies?
We're going to kill Olwë and one of the daughters of Finwë in the Kinslaying, most likely.
Do aikairos and eliöindo/olwion appear in the series?
I just finished listening to the podcast for this session.
I'm not a fan of compressing the timeline in the Beleriand story. This is Silm Film! We must indulge in the totality of everything Tolkien put in the story. That's why we're here.
I suggest separating the Beleriand story arc into two phases: an extended flashback showing what happened between the sundering of the elves and the return of Morgoth, and a phase coterminous with the events in the Noldor storyline.
We have a frame structure. Use it! (Tolkien did).
Here's my proposal for episodes 3-6:
3 – Meanwhile, in Beleriand
FULL EPISODE FLASHBACK: Return to Cirdan and the Teleri who are searching for Thingol and Melian. Cirdan founds his settlement. Teleri find Thingol and Melian and they decide to establish a kingdom in Doriath. Establish characters of Luthien, Daeron, Mablung, Beleg, etc. Discover caves of Menegroth. Sauron does trickery, but as discussed in season 2, his orcs are useless, so there aren't any orc raids yet.
4 – Khazad Ai Menu!
MOAR FLASHBACK: Make this episode centered on the relationship between the elves and the dwarves. The dwarves are discovered. They tell their story. They help Thingol redesign Menegroth. Good times are had by almost all! Sauron tricks someone into betraying Mim. Green elves arrive.
5 –
FLASHBACK PART 3! Green elves tell their story (flashback includes Bombadil cameo--yes a flashback in a flashback!). Thingol give them Ossiriand as a homeland. Cirdan's city is really nice now. Mim attacks and is thrown out. Elves and friendly dwarves make weapons. At the end of the episode, everything goes dark and Morgoth returns to Middle Earth.
6 – Girdle of Melian
Now in real time with Noldor story: Morgoth's redesigned orcs attack. Spiders attack. Zombie bears and walruses attack. Heroic elves and dwarves (Beleg, Mablung, etc.) defend Doriath. Girdle goes up. Elf colonies outside Doriath suffer losses. Denethor isn't dead yet. Intertwine this episode with Noldor journey up the coast and Feanor's host at sea.
7 - Return to Noldor storyline
The fix for this problem would have been doing a separate Beleriand season, but this is where we are.
Doing whole episodes in flashback is something I would stay far away from. What we could do is have the question of whether the events were truly contemporaneous come up in the frame and answer it with a, "Do you want to hear this story or not?"
Doing episodes in flashback doesn't actually solve the issue unless you are calling it out, which gets tedious. Hanging a lampshade on what we are doing here gives a nod to the informed audience that we are purposefully being unreliable narrators for the purpose of storytelling, without creating as much confusion as we would calling out a flashback within the flashback.