Session 3.01 and 3.07 - Season Overview

So you have to either divide the two storylines or do a flashback/recap. If we do a flashback we can let good guys tell the story, or the bad guys.
 
We could combine a Beleriand focused e1 with a focus on the frame. It could work well with a frame person who is reluctant to tell Estel about the Oath and the Kinslaying.
 
Yes, the time differential is indeed an issue. However, I don't think that the Beleriand events need be as sketchy as you say. To use and add a bit to Marie's timeline for a second:

Kingdom of Doriath established.
Luthien born.
Dwarves enter Beleriand.
Thingol builds Menegroth. Daeron invents the Runes.
Orcs enter Beleriand.
Dwarves begin making weapons and armor for the Sindar.
Nandor enter Beleriand.
First Battle of Beleriand is fought
Denethor of the Green-elves slain and the Havens of the Falas are besieged.


Compare that to Noldor-focused elements

Flight of the Noldor.
First Kinslaying.
Doom of Mandos. Finarfin turns back.
Fëanor reaches Middle-earth and burns the ships.
Death of Fëanor.
Capture of Maedhros.
Maedhros sent to Thangorodrim


Granted, the events following the Noldor are described in more detail, but there is a lot of story in the Sindarin plotline! And it is certainly no more bare than the bones on which we hung Season 1.

Delaying the beginning of the plot is an interesting idea, but it is a bit problematic in terms of sketching out a plot arc for the season.

For a possible example, Act I would take us from the Oath up until the Kinslaying, Act II would be the Kinslaying through the Prophecy, Act III takes us from Finarfin's about face through to the Great Maritime Bonfire, and Act IV, from the Feanor's treachery to Fingolfin's arrival.
 
We don't have to stick to the story arch book at all times. Or I would say that inserting a story in the middle of a cliffhanger is basic storytelling, so I don't see the problem.

In any case, I would very much like this idea to be discussed today, if possible.
 
I will, as always, float your ideas to the hosts if you can't make it.

As to inserting a story in the middle of a cliffhanger ... I have seen it done, and even successfully, as a mid-season break as part of the larger story arc. Doing it in the opening or closing act ... I have yet to see it done effectively. It muddies the waters about where our attention should be.
 
Sketchy detail... like I said elsewhere, we're going to have to spend a lot of time turning sketchy detail into full stories as we move forward. Might as well start now...
 
Here is the Episode Overview that Corey Olsen typed up during the Session today:


Season 3 Outlines



Noldor Story Arc

  • Oath of Feanor, Rebellion

  • Kinslaying

  • Uinen’s Storm

  • Moving up the coast (Divided Host)

  • Curse of Mandos

  • Finarfin turns back

  • Burning of the Ships

  • Crossing of the Helcaraxe

  • Battles, Feanor’s Death

  • Parley with Morgoth -- Capture of Maedhros

Beleriand Story Arc

  • Building of Menegroth?

  • Reveal of the orcs

  • Girdle of Melian

  • Increasing orc aggression

  • Meeting the dwarves

  • Dwarf alliances: Weapons, Menegroth

  • Arrival of Green elves

  • Slaughter of the green elves, Death of Denethor

  • Eol

  • Ents

  • Daeron and runes

  • Birth of Luthien

  • Tom Bombadil cameo

  • Final battles, Sindar losing

  • Thingol hearing news of the arrival of the Noldor

  • Cirdan

  • Petty dwarves
Angband Story Arc

  • SNOP Culminates (Morgoth taking over)

  • Power struggle between Sauron and Gothmog

  • Gothmog kills Faenor

  • What is Sauron up to? Capture of Maedhros

  • Fortification of Thangorodrim

  • Balrogs, war in the North

  • Sauron, war in the South

  • Boldog

  • R&D: werewolves, dragons, Trolls, spiders!

  • Shelob!
Valinor Stuff

  • Lead-up to Curse of Mandos (“And yet remain evil”)

    • Reaction to Kinslaying
  • Non-reaction of Valar to Feanor’s rebellion

  • Osse not allowed to react; Uinen acting anyway

  • Making of the Sun and Moon

  • Hiding of Valinor

  • Reception of Finarfin?
Episode Outline

1 – Rebellion of Feanor

  • Oath

  • Non-reaction of Valar

  • Brief visit to Angband -- Fortification of Thangorodrim
2 – Kinslaying

  • Osse and Uinen

  • Death of Olwe

  • Storm of Uinen
3 – Meanwhile, in Beleriand

  • Establish Thingol, Melian, and their court

  • Luthien, Daeron

  • NO Menegroth, living above ground, in Doriath, No Girdle

  • SNOP details, orcs being prepped for release

  • Boldog

  • Sauron given charge of campaign in South

  • First orc raids (Mablung and Beleg)
4 – Khazad Ai Menu!

  • Elves losing and dying

  • Encounter w dwarves

  • alliance negotiated

  • Divided host of the Noldor
5 –

  • Menegroth given to Elves

  • Mim tossed, disgruntled

  • Weapons forged

  • Orcs repelled!

  • Sauron starts Phase 2 (sneaky)
6 – Girdle of Melian

  • Phase 2 proceeding (infiltration)

    • Trouble in the Havens
  • Girdle goes up

  • Eol
7 –

  • Curse of Mandos

  • Finarfin turns back
8 –

  • Burning of the Ships

  • Forgiveness of Finarfin
9 –

  • Setting off across the Helcaraxe

  • First skirmishes with orcs, victory of Feanor (Dagor-nuin-Giliath)

  • Humiliation of Gothmog

  • Green elves, ents!
10 –

  • Crossing the Helcaraxe

  • Death of Feanor (Gothmog gets his mojo back)

  • Ents!
11 –

  • Making of the Sun and Moon

  • Still Crossing the Helcaraxe

  • Trolls!
12 –

  • Arrival from Helcaraxe, Rising of the Moon

  • Death of Denethor, slaughter of Green elves
13 – Despair and Hope

  • Capture of Maedhros (Fake Parley)

  • Rising of the Sun

  • Arrival of Fingolfin in Mithrim

  • Messengers arrive to Thingol, telling of Noldor
 
I think the rising of the Sun over the hosts of Fingolfin marching into Middle Earth would be a great closing scene to Season 3. It is a BIG DEAL storywise, and it could be visually very memorable. It also strikes a note of hope that could be a nice way to end a season that, in the Noldor storyline at least, will be pretty dark. (Of course, using the crowning of Fingolfin as the season end would strike a similar theme).
I love the idea of the season ending with the rising of the sun behind Fingolfin's march into M.E. It contrasts nicely with the ending of Season 2, when everything is plunged into darkness. It's also a mix of hope (yay! Help against Morgoth!") and apprehension ("oooohh... what's going to happen now?"), especially if we've spent some time with Fingolfin's people, showing what they've gone through and how justifiable pissed some of them are (coughTurgoncough)

I hear you. One issue, though, is that most of the Beleriand stuff needs to happen before the Noldor return, because it is in reaction to Morgoth waging war on them...and the Noldor appear as 'saviors' in the midst of that.

We can change that (allow the Doriath storyline to develop throughout Season 3), but then we would have consequences to their reaction to the arrival of the Noldor. Not insurmountable consequences, but we do need to pay attention when we change things.
I also think we want to front-load the Doriath and Beleriand stuff in the first half, because we need to convey a sense of time passing as the Noldor journey to M.E. Having them be largely or completely absent after stealing the ships for a few episodes (or just enough to show the tensions on the ships, such as between Feanor and his brothers or Feanor and Maedros) seems an easy way to do that.
 
During Friday's session, it came up that we would be introducing Lúthien in this season, and that means episode 3. Whether she will be a baby, child, adolescent or adult at the time is up for discussion. My guess is that we won't have her be a baby, and that she will be an adult by episode 13.

The other characters who will likely grow up during this Season are Idril Celebrindal, who was a child during the Darkening of Valinor, and Celebrimbor, who was a teen during the banishment of Fëanor. Both of them should probably be adults by the Feast of Reuniting, which will likely be ~ episode 3 of Season 4.
 
I think that the story of Maedhros' capture has a lot of convoluted steps to it, so should probably be spread out through episodes 12 and 13.

To wit:

After the death of Fëanor, Morgoth sends an emissary to ask for parley, with the promise that a silmaril is on the table. We've decided that Sauron is involved with this plan, as sneaky deals are more his thing.

The Sons of Fëanor debate the idea, and Maedhros decides to show up, but with extra men. None of his brothers come with him, so either he ordered them to stay behind or there was some other disagreement going on there - regardless, we need to show that debate.

Parley happens; there are balrogs, and the elves are all slaughtered. Maedhros taken captive.

Next emissary comes to the elves, this time saying...lay down your arms and walk away, or your brother will pay for it. The (remaining) Sons of Fëanor decide that due to the Oath, they cannot accept those terms. They refuse, leaving Maedhros in Morgoth's dungeon.

Morgoth sticks Maedhros on the cliff.

After this, the host of Fingolfin arrives, the Sun rises, etc.

All of that back and forth seems like a *lot* for the finale. I think that the original emissary and Maedhros' decision to go (at least) should be in Episode 12. Possibly Maedhros' defeat would be where Episode 12 cuts off, though that is up for debate. Otherwise, we squeeze out the second emissary, where the Sons of Fëanor choose their Oath over their brother, which is kind of a big deal. And yes, they can say that Morgoth is (clearly) dishonest and his promises can't be trusted and Maedhros is probably dead already....but they still make that call. That should be the note of despair, as no one is counting on Fingon and his single-handed (er) harp-based rescue.

I figure we'll get plenty of reaction shots when the sun rises, and I certainly want one of them to be Maedhros chained to the cliff. But that predicament is more poignant if we've already heard his brothers give up on him.
 
I agree: the post-Feanor but pre-Fingolfin M.E. stuff is rather convoluted. If we don't spread it out, then moments of real emotional and dramatic weight could get lost in the shuffle.

Another interesting question: what are we going for with Fingolfin's arrival? I see three obvious options:
1) tension: we have the idea that he's still more ticked at Morgoth than anyone else (if we need to, we could have him say, maybe to Turgon, "first we settle Morgoth, then Feanor") and so can be of help to the Feanorean brats, but only if he reaches them in time! This could be done, but making it too clear they're still basically on the side of the Feanoreans this early downplays the wonder of Fingolfin's peacemaking, and could downplay the hardships they went through: "how bad could it be if we're all still friends in the end"?
2) dread: we know they're coming, we know they're pissed, and we don't know that they'll place the grudge with Morgoth over their rage at Feanor's betrayal. We've already had one Kinslaying this season, how do we know we won't have another? This is one that I think would be easiest to set up, but we'd have to be careful not to leave the audience feeling cheated when the Feast happens and it's not a GoT type scene.
3) eucatastrophe: we don't even know they'll arrive at the same place as the Feanoreans until we see (for example) an arrow flying, killing an orc scout or something, from a direction Maglor & co have no troops. Cue dramatic turn and reveal, backdropped by the rising sun. Downside with this one is we might have to reduce the amount of time we spend with them crossing into M. E. to keep the surprise, and I don't think the crossing of the Helcaraxe is one we want to tell in flashback or narrative afterwards.
 
Hmm, I hear you on making the audience feel cheated. Too much build up of 'we're back and we're angry!' makes the '..but we're all friends now' feel a bit anti-climatic. I do think that's the right note to hit, but maybe with some hints of *some* of them thinking that Morgoth is the real enemy.

Maybe not Fingolfin though? He could be focused on keeping everyone alive and just getting to Middle Earth, so we don't really know what he's going to do once he gets there. He could say that his brother has a lot to answer for without really coming out and saying that he's out for blood or anything. But he's the leader, so if we hear him say 'Morgoth first, he's the true enemy!' then the tension is destroyed.

The only character in the Finarfin-camp we've spent any time with up until now is Galadriel. It might be time to introduce Finrod, as he would feel responsible for taking over after Finarfin turned back. He is a voice of reason and he sees the bigger picture, so we could express some of that 'we're not going to have another kinslaying' vibe with him....but since he's not in charge of the whole group or calling the shots, it might just look like there's going to be a Fingolfin/Finarfin camp divide if the Fingolfin camp (*cough* Turgon) gets too bent on revenge.

And obviously Turgon and Fingon have to have a bitter fight about this at some point. Not at Elenwë's funeral service, but at some point. Those two brothers are the most distant brothers Tolkien has ever written (I think), so we need to show why they just do not get along or see eye to eye. Think about it - Fingon doesn't even know where Gondolin *is*. That's a pretty extreme version of 'you don't write, you don't call...'
 
Was it you who, a while ago, suggested that Turgon essentially sees Finrod as a Feanorean post-Elenwe? Maybe we play up tensions between the two brothers throughout the season, with her playing peacemaker until she dies. Maybe someone else, Galadriel or little Idril perhaps, tries to take up that role (though obviously either of those two would try for very different reasons), only it doesn't work*. That way, Elenwe's death would be more than the death of a (sorry) tertiary character, but the death of their brotherly bond, as well.

*For the record, I'm a big fan of our characters who are going to be great, awesome, insightful and persuasive characters fumbling the ball at least once in their early days: show that they learned these skills, weren't necessarily born with them. Also, in this particular case, setting up that Turgon doesn't really listen to those around him anymore would be useful.
 
Fingon makes a very interesting High King of the Noldor. He pulls off the Union of Maedhros, and yes, that leads to the Unnumbered Tears, but it speaks to his ability to make differing, disparate groups get along. Not perfectly, of course, but usually what keeps people from joining that effort is totally not his fault (most of the fault lies on the Fëanoreans, of course). We will have seen Fingon and Maedhros try to patch up the Fëanor and Fingolfin relationship (to little avail) in Season 2, and in the end, their fathers draw them apart rather than them being able to reconcile their fathers. But as a king, he comes much closer to succeeding. Turgon does not break the Leaguer of Gondolin for any reason (if he can help it), but he sends his full force to that battle to support his brother. (Presumably, there were some eagle messengers involved.)

So, in the end, the brothers reconcile enough to at least be on speaking terms. Perhaps burying his father taught Turgon that he doesn't want to sit any more battles out (Gondolin is the Switzerland of Beleriand, usually.) But there will definitely be a sour note in the 'Fingon rescues Maedhros! Maedhros acknowledges Fingolfin as High King!' drama, and that will have to be Turgon leaving to found Nevrast with an 'I'm never speaking to you again' attitude.

The audience will be expecting immediate payback from the Doom of Mandos. Sure, it's going to come back and haunt them all later, but we need to see the way the rebellion tears itself apart from the beginning. Fëanor's burning of the ships is the obvious and spectacular betrayal that seems to answer that question, but we should see some splintering/infighting in the group crossing the Helcaraxë. Maybe not Moses-in-the-desert levels of 'Why did you ever lead us out of Valinor?' but....some of that. Some grumbling, some dissatisfaction. And not all of the anger would be directed at Morgoth or Fëanor, though they are the obvious targets. So, yes, a crumbling relationship between Fingon and Turgon (with Elenwë as peacekeeper) makes sense.
 
So, I did this in the frame story thread, but I feel it is important to bring it up here so that we are thinking about pur structure here.


Act I
Episode 1 (Plot Point 1 - The Oath)
Episode 2 (Pinch 1 - The Kinslaying)
Episode 3 (B Pinch 1 - Appearance of Orcs in Beleriand)
Episode 4 ( B Plot Point 1 - Alliance with Dwarves)

Act II
Episode 5
Episode 6 (B Pinch 2 - Havens Attacked)
Episode 7 (Midpoint - Curse of Mandos)
Episode 8 (Pinch 2 - Ship-Burning)

Act III
Episode 9 (B Plot Point 1 - Green Elves)
Episode 10 (Climax-ish -Death of Feanor)
Episode 11
Episode 12 (B Climax - Death of Denethor)
Episode 13 (Also Climax-ish - Parley and capture of Maedhros)



So.... I have some issues with all of this. Right out of the gate, placing the fall of Denethor after the fall of Feanor makes Gothmog' s campaign victorious and Sauron's a failure. This is in direct opposition to what the hosts said they wanted to accomplish. If Thingol's Pyrrhic Victory over Sauron' s orcs is only a temporary one due to Sauron being called in to support Gothmog, it has to happen first.


The rest of the issues are concerning structure. Currently, we are driving the tensions of the various plots in a manner which will feel a little dissonant when the episodes are actually put together.
 
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