Session 3.02 - Season 3 Frame

Estel is a 10-yr-old boy (who turns 11 in March) in Season 1. The Season 2 frame focuses on Arwen in Lothlorien post-Battle of Five Armies.

The Season 5 Frame is meant to be 20-year-old Aragorn meeting Arwen, learning his true heritage, and deciding to go adventuring in the world (leaving Rivendell).

So, for Season 3, we can pick any of Aragorn's teen years. He can be 15 or 17 or whatever. I agree that he's not actually going to leave Rivendell yet. He's not ready. But like any teen, he might think he's ready and grown up just a bit before he actually is. So, this can be an abortive bid for freedom, as he's chafing and wants to 'escape', but learns his lesson and comes back. The reason to do this at all is to tie in to the rebellion of the Noldor - they want to leave Valinor, and are a bit rash about it. He wants to leave Rivendell, and...is also a bit rash, but with less blood/death/fire/kinslaying.

The Season 4 Frame will probably not take place in Rivendell. We had meant to rejoin Bilbo in the Shire and have him learn about elves to get the story of the Sindar/Noldor feuding. Bilbo did appear in the Season 1 Frame, but we would probably have to come up with an excuse to re-introduce him. It turns out that the twins have neatly tied together the Season 1-2-3 frames, so we will likely have Bilbo encountering an elf from Rivendell early in Season 4 that we recognize from the Season 3 Frame to tie those together as well. But obviously the Season 4 Frame is more of a nebulous concept than a firm decision at this point.

I agree that the differences between Elves and Men will fit well with Season 5, but do feel that if Estel leaves Rivendell, he should meet the Dunedain. They are his people, and literally the only ones who live anywhere near Rivendell. So, I'm fine with the Dunedain being part of this storyline. Estel met a Dunedain ranger who was bringing a message to Rivendell in the Season 1 frame, and Arwen met some mortals who lived by the Anduin in the Season 2 frame, so it's not like Men aren't part of the Frame story yet.
 
Yes, so in season one, he met Dunedain for the first time; this season he meets them again but again just in brief meetings or for short periods of time. Two episodes maybe. Then he'll join the world of men fully in season five, but also fall in love with Arwen.
He should get a lot of training for life in the wild from the twins. Or Glorfindel.
 
One trait I would like to see in teen!Estel is protectiveness of Gilraen. He's the only child of a single mom, and they are the only two humans living in Rivendell. Estel doesn't have to be overly defensive, but he would want to look out for her and protect her pride/dignity, I would think. He knows she is lonely and never really recovered from the broken heart of losing his father. But more than that...he would feel some responsibility for looking out for her and being the man of the house* and all of that. Basically, I don't want to see teenage rebellion angst as the primary factor in their relationship.

* (Things not to say when attending a funeral and speaking to the deceased's 10-year-old son.)
 
On Estel's age in this Frame -

If we re-use the boy-actor from the Season 1 Frame, then Season 3 Frame Aragorn will likely appear to be around 13-14 years old.

If we intend to use the same actor for the Season 3 and Season 5 frame, then we should pick a 17-18 year old actor for Season 3 who can naturally age into 20-year-old Aragorn.

And if we want a story with a 15-16 year old Estel, then we should cast a different actor for Season 3, most likely.


(Here's what our 10-yr-old-actor-at-the-time-of-Season-1-casting looks like now: )
 
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MithLuin said:
* (Things not to say when attending a funeral and speaking to the deceased's 10-year-old son.)
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There's a personal experience here, isn't there?


But on the larger point, I like the idea of Aragorn being protective of Gilraen. If we're particularly clever, we might even be able to begin to set up her fading/surrender of hope in this season's frame, so that it doesn't come out of nowhere later: our spunky Gilraen for Season 1 didn't seem to be giving up. But if we show her "relaxing her guard", as it were, now that Aragorn is approaching adulthood, that might help bridge the gap.
 
Heh. I mean, yes, I do know young people who have lost their fathers. Not sure I went to the funerals. But I know there's something...dangerous...about telling a kid he's gotta be the man of the house since his father has died. You don't do that to someone.

Of course, in many cases, young widows remarry. Gilraen does not. Whether that is by choice or by lack of available options isn't clear. I do think that we could go all Buttercup 'I will never love again' with her, but we don't *have* to. It could be a lot of reasons. One practical reason is that she's chosen to live in an elf haven to protect and raise her son...and there are a shortage of single young Dunedain around in that environment. Another possible reason could be more...dynastic. Aragorn is Arathorn's son. If she remarries and her new husband is random-Dunedain-with-no-lineage, what does that mean for her son? Will everyone forget he's the heir to the chieftain and assume he belongs to her 'new' family? Or is she just afraid to love someone new with the very real threat of losing her husband to a violent death yet again? Regardless, she could have a mix of reasons for remaining as a single widow, and we don't have to explore them all, as there's no way she's sharing any of this with her son. But it is a conscious choice to allow Elrond to be her co-parent, so she doesn't just wake up one day and notice she's still a widow.
 
New list needed for 13 episodes, incorporating the Fell Winter, the drowning of Tharbad and the death of Halbarad's son, as per Corey's request in the Session.
 
The immediate implication of moving the Fell Winter in the timeline (to the wider story) is that a post-Erebor Bilbo would have to play a large role in the defense of the Shire. Better go fetch that coat from Michel Delving...

To the actual story we are telling, this gives a nice opportunity for Estel and Bilbo to meet again.
 
On the note of Halbarad's son for the frame... is there any way we can give him a name that means "king's friend"? Make it seem ironic at first, but (I would argue) it should prove true in the end. I think that, if we go with that plot element, the boys' rivalry should get resolved in the end, even if only on his deathbed.*

*On that note, we could play with the idea of some of the Dunedain, especially Halbarad and possibly his son, knowing who Estel is but deferring to Elrond's wisdom and not letting it slip. So the son could give a cryptic line, perhaps foreshadowing Boromir's, about how he would have followed him?
 
MithLuin said:
New list needed for 13 episodes, incorporating the Fell Winter, the drowning of Tharbad and the death of Halbarad's son, as per Corey's request in the Session.
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Are we changing the timeline again?
The Fell Winter was in T.A. 2911-12, that's 20 years before Aragorn/Estel was born (T.A. 2931) and 30 years before the Quest of Erebor (T.A. 2941) that happend during season 1.
 
I like the idea, but don't think I want to name him Arandil, just because that is way too close to Earendil. Based on apparent Dunedain naming habits, I would suspect that Halbarad's son has a name starting with Hal-

Halboron, if we want a Boromir parallel?

I don't think we should use the -wine ending for friendship, as that would be more appropriate for Rohan than the Dunedain.

And we probably shouldn't name him Haleth, either.
 
We are moving the Fell Winter up 30 years so it can be part of our story, yes. To his credit, Corey Olsen did call this idea 'heterodox' when he suggested it.
 
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Rough ideas for frame:

Episode one: Autumn in Rivendell. Estel frustrated. A lot of sniping, fingering his sword and longing for action. Ends with him packing a travel rucksack and disappearing in the dead of night,s uccessfully sneaking past guards.

Episode two: Estel discovered missing; Elrond sends twins after him. Estel has some successes in the wilderness, including weathering a storm without much difficulty?

Episode three: Twins find him; he refuses to return. They agree he can explore the world, but only if they come along. He agrees with poor grace, considers them babysitters.

Episode four: First snowfall. They come to a camp of Dunedain. Halbarad recognizes Estel (how many other Dunedain boys are raised by elves, after all?) He withholds judgement, but his son (slightly older than Estel, I think) is disdainful, as he can easily read Estel's shock and discomfort. Drinking and wrestling contest, where the boys are shown to be equals, to both's displeasure.

Episode five: First real hints this winter is unnatural. Estel and twins continue along with Halbarad towards Breelands, hearing howling of wolves. Estel clearly dislikes camp life, and puts his foot in it asking why Dunedain don't have a proper home. Estel begins to earn some of the younger boys' admiration for his storytelling, but Halbarad Jr. and his friends scorn him as a better nursemaid than a fighter. Estel overhears them, and is furious. Halbarad pulls his son aside and tells him to be patient, that Estel's forging is not yet done.

Episode six: Stop at the Prancing Pony, where Halbarad Jr. introduces Estel as "Strider" as a joke. Journey continues towards Buckland. Continuing signs the winter is going to be unusually harsh. Halbarad Jr. speaks of the Old Forest, saying that only the bravest and most cunning of Dunedain can venture there without fear, clearly suggesting Estel isn't up for it.

Episode seven: Estel sneaks off from camp to brave the Forest. Halbarad Jr. finds out, but first doesn't care. Then reports come in from other Dunedain that wolves of unusual size and fierceness have been spotted in the Forest, and he regrets his scornful words, and goes after Estel without telling anyone. Boys meet up, quarrel, are attacked by wolves (the first time they've been seen on screen).

Episode eight: Boys fight and attempt to escape wolves, but Halbarad Jr. is wounded. Estel has to decide whether to leave him behind or attempt to save him.

Episode nine: Estel makes it out of the Forest with Halbarad Jr., where Gandalf is waiting. Reems both boys for being so foolish. Halbarad Jr.'s wounds are infected, and beyond Gandalf's skill to heal. There is something strange about them -- it is not the normal way of an animal bite. Implied extra sickness in the wolves.

Episode ten: Estel watches over his dying companion. The boy is delerious, perhaps prophecying? The twins and Halbarad catch up with them.

Episode eleven: Word reaches the Dunedain that the wolves have invaded the Shire. Halbarad must leave his son's side to fight; Estel volunteers to stay so that his companion does not die alone, though he longs for martial glory.

Episode twelve: Halbarad Jr. dies, making his peace with Estel. Estel attends his burial, and offers himself in service to Halbarad as weregild. Halbarad declines, saying his son made his own choices and he has no grief with Estel. Sun shines for the first time in months on Midwinter's Day.

Episode thirteen: Estel returns home, apologizes to his mother and has a heart-to-heart with Elrond.
 
Mmmmk. Here's everything I was able to gather today, just in case it's useful. Segments in bold are the more concrete ideas that we'll likely be focusing on, according to the discussion. I'm actually pretty excited about this season's frame, though we seemingly have a lot to pack in there!


Denethor’s Death


Reasoning for position in story: Denethor’s death is the “tragic culmination of the Beleriand arc” . His death and the slaugther of the green elves is a tragic last note (before the note of hope when the messengers arrive). It looks like Sauron is winning. Don’t want to leave Beleriand story high and dry four episodes before the season finale….

Denethor’s death is Sauron’s victory (he has the south under control)….

* Don’t make Thingol victorious in this particular battle? (aka change it from the end result in the story). So “Battle of Unnumbered Tears, Green elf version”….


General idea: Everything is getting besieged, looks like the entire South is about to fall…


Q: Do we see a successful alliance battle between the Sindar and the dwarves? Doesn’t have to be at the end.... Could have them losing at the end despite the alliance. So the Girdle of Melian is "akin to the Panic Room" (safe, but lost the battle)...


Q: How sensitive should we make Morgoth to the machination of his underlings? (To be addressed next time)


Feanor’s death – the victory of Gothmog (a fun twist for the bad guy story. Looks like Sauron is doing well despite a couple setbacks. Sauron has the southern front in hand, while Gothmog and orcs are getting crushed by the Noldor. Then all of a sudden they get this one big triumph… killing Feanor. This is bound to frustrate Sauron. It’s really going to upset Sauron that in one fell stroke Gothmog gets all this glory)


** We should really do more with the bad guys this season since they’re the connecting factor between the Noldor/Beleriand story arcs.


FRAME STORY


* This season still needs to be elf-centric, but we should move to a Sindarin representative. Can’t be Celeborn. Other candidates are Círdan or Legolas/Thranduil. Can have Gandalf visiting Círdan in the Grey Havens?


* Another idea – Legolas in Mirkwood with the hunt for Gollum?


Need to have Aragorn grow up a bit before he meets Arwen:


- Need more adventures with young Aragorn

- The premise of season 5 is Estel learns who he really is etc, so we need to grow him up so there’s more significance when we get to the scene where Elrond presents him with the sword

- we get to see him going through some growing pains

- season 1 wasn’t really about him growing up, the protagonists there were Gilraen and Elrond , so this time he properly comes into his own as a protagonist



Aragorn goes to the Grey Havens to meet Círdan? Or meets Legolas? He’s roaming around under the protection of the twins. (Good also for covering the range of Geography that we’re going to be covering in the main story). So, we’re “Aragorn centric but not Aragorn obsessed”.


Q: How do we approach Aragorn’s not knowing about Arwen? Do we alter it or stick with the script?


Fell Winter:

Advantages of putting Fell Winter into season 3 plot:

- gives us an event to occur in frame

- Helceraxe parallel

- Brings us in a Shireward direction (it was during this winter that Gandalf became attached to hobbits, etc)

Disadvantage – no solution for the Old Took side of that story


*Aragorn could aid in the evacuation of Tharbad?

*Aragorn could be sent to Círdan to get his aid

* Ends and means decisions we can do well in the context of the Fell Winter


Aragorn’s pride….

- Doing a parallel between him and Feanor might work.

- “Those who have the most power are at the greatest risk of falling”….. Aragorn is in that camp.

- Aragorn should make costly mistakes that affect the people around him.

- Encounter: Gandalf in a towering rage over what Aragorn has done ?


We should contrast the concept of kingship with Feanor and Aragorn (Aragorn really comes into it and earns it whereas Feanor...notsomuch...)


* It shouldn’t just be Feanor being a jerk...it’s also about Feanor being a bad king. So contrast what makes a good king and what makes a bad king.


* Estel still doesn’t know he’s meant to be a king. Right now it’s more about leadership and self-awareness.


Q: What’s Aragorn’s relationship with the other Dunedain going to be?

- Some know who Aragorn Is, some don’t.

- We should have someone as the acting chieftain...Halbarad!


Q: What could we use in the frame to parallel the dwarves storyline?

- The culture shock of meeting the Dunedain. Aragorn has grown up sheltered, could be shocked by how rough the Dunedain live, etc.


* The Tharbad flood could follow the thaws at the end of the Fell Winter

- could be the last settlement of the Dunedain

- Dunedain wandering and itenerant ...



Halbarad discussion

- make him into a rival for Aragorn? His son?

- Have Halbarad’s son die? Grieving for his son...

- Halbarad has a lot of reasons to “go rogue”, but he doesn’t

- Aragorn could lead the Dunedain into a rash battle in which Halbarad Jr died...which Halbarad could forgive, but it would still be a big deal

- Have Halbarad Jr die defending Aragorn, so Aragorn could carry the survivor’s guilt?

- Halbard Jr as Aragorn’s rival (Nicknames him Trotter/Strider?)

- Halbarad Jr dares Aragon into doing something rash?


* Touching on Elladan’s leaning towards darkness....could parallell that drive to revenge with the ship burning episode


* The broken sword

- could have a broken sword motif going

- the reforging of Narsil paralleled with Aragorn’s growing up process



* Save the White Council for season 4 and Bilbo be involved on the fringes of that


The wolves kill Halbarad Jr. and Aragorn can’t save him.


Main issues for next time:


1. The Menegroth situation – why do we need it again? Why do the elves want to live in a cave? Why do they need the help of the dwarves? Need a compelling reason.

2. The Helceraxe – what do we do with that besides exposure to the elements?

3. What’s Angband like? What are the politics like there? How does Morgoth fit into the Sauron-Gothmog equation?
 
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Edit: Clearly I was not fast enough - great job on the superior note-taking, Richol!

Here are the initial suggestions we made, with the vetoed ideas cut out:


E1: Establishing Estel's feeling of being kept in Rivendell against his will or being constrained. Conflicts with Gilraen and Elrond. [Estel finds the broken sword and is fascinated.] He decides to strike out on his own.

E2: Estel running away and having his first encounters with the world outside Rivendell. The twins are sent to find him and do so. He refuses to return, so they agree to accompany him.

E3: Estel, Elladan and Elrohir encounter orcs.

E4: Continuing the field trip, Estel and the twins meet some Dunedain rangers and Estel learns something about their ways. He meets Halbarad's son, who is not overly impressed with Estel's sheltered and pampered background.

E5: Another encounter with orcs, this time with the Dunedain to help.

E6: Back at Rivendell, Gilraen isn't all pleased with his field trip.

E7:

E8: Elladan’s darkness is brought out by a reveal of something he did out on the ‘field trip’ - Elrohir and Glorfindel disapprove.

E9:

E10:

E11:

E12:

E13: ???


So, some things that need to happen:

Estel is ~16 years old in this story.

We meet Halbarad, acting chieftain of the Dunedain, and his son (to be named). His son has some taunts for the young Aragorn, whom he looks down at. Estel in turn is clearly looking down his nose at the Dunedain after being raised in a rather elvish manner himself. Halbarad has every intention of stepping down when the time is right, but he recognizes that Arathorn's heir is very green and needs some time before he will be accepted by his people as a leader.

Halbarad's son will die this season, and Estel will be at fault for putting him in a dangerous position in the first place due to his poor leadership. Halbarad's son will be killed by wolves.

The Fell Winter will be introduced late in the first half of the Season. This is an ecological hardship, but also an opportunity for the incursion of evil creatures. There is speculation as to what has caused this harsh weather. The Dunedain might suspect a resurgence of the Witch-King in Angmar. What does Elrond think is going on? What do his sons think? Círdan knows the truth (because Ulmo would know what is behind this weather).

We will need to coordinate several different groups to fight back against the incursion and keep folks alive during the long and difficult winter. Gandalf can be involved with the protection of the Shire. The Wolves get through and cross the frozen Brandywine, but perhaps other creatures such as orcs and trolls are kept out.

Tharbad can be the last real permanent settlement of the Dunedain, and it can be destroyed by floods as the snows melt.

Estel's decision to run away is straight-up rebellious (he does not have permission for his field trip), but it has the unintended consequence of bringing the Sons of Elrond (and thus the resources of Rivendell) to bear as soon as the threat of the Fell Winter is recognized.


The White Council storyline will be saved for the Season 4 Frame.
We do have to decide how it can be that Estel spends all this time with the Sons of Elrond right after their return from Lothlorien and they never even mention their sister around him.
 
Marielle said:
Episode eleven: Word reaches the Dunedain that the wolves have invaded the Shire. Halbarad must leave his son's side to fight; Estel volunteers to stay so that his companion does not die alone, though he longs for martial glory.

Episode twelve: Halbarad Jr. dies, making his peace with Estel. Estel attends his burial, and offers himself in service to Halbarad as weregild. Halbarad declines, saying his son made his own choices and he has no grief with Estel. Sun shines for the first time in months on Midwinter's Day.
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I really like the idea that the mature/responsible choice Estel makes is to comfort the dying rather than to join in the fighting. Estel is going to grow up to be a great healer (or at least someone know knows how to use athelas against Nazgul-inflicted injury), so showing his interest here is something that fits him. It could come up that even though Gandalf can't do anything for the injured boy, Elrond might have been able to save him (being the greatest healer). That would give Estel and Elrond something to discuss when he gets back to Rivendell - Estel acknowledging that he still has a lot to learn in not just a generic/humble way, but in a 'I didn't know the first thing about healing, and you're the world's expert on that, so maybe Rivendell has more to offer than I realized.' way.

Also, one thing we didn't address in the session is how the topic of Oaths would be handled in the Frame, and I think this is important where we need some exposition that we might not have all that much opportunity for in the main story. Not that we can't cover it a little bit - Fingolfin choosing to hold to his word to follow his brother suggests that he values oathkeeping, but he could still say something disparaging about the Oath that Fëanor and his sons took (especially post Doom of Mandos/on the Helcaraxë). And we haven't discussed just what exactly precipitates Fëanor abandoning the Host of Fingolfin when he does - it can be a sneak away in the night thing that seems totally random to those on the other side, but it is also possible that Fingolfin and Fëanor will have words after the Doom and that precipitates the betrayal.

But if oaths are going to come up in the Frame, Estel trying to take an oath of fealty to the Dunedain, but being rejected/not allowed to do so would be a neat opportunity to talk about that. We could have all sorts of laced-with-meaning comments in that discussion. Halbarad could even say that since Estel's father is dead, it would be wrong for him to accept the oath of his young son without his permission (or the permission of his foster father), and that he held his father in too much esteem to allow his son to make rash decisions in his youth that would follow him his entire life. But that when his foster father deems he has reached manhood and can make his own decisions, he's welcome to come back and they can discuss this again at that time. [Or something like that.]

I like that we are painting Halbarad as a sympathetic father figure who can still treat Estel well and not lose faith in him despite his own grief. We would need at least one private moment between him and his son early on where he counsels patience with the young Estel, who is new to this life, but will surely learn, especially if he has such an excellent teacher to show him the ways of the Dunedain. If we're setting him up to be the counterpart to Denethor later on....well, this works. Oh, and the audience would likely be uncomfortable if he leaves his dying son's side (for any reason), so we would have to show their farewell, with the dying boy urging him to go save those hobbits from the evil wolves. He's going to need permission to walk away. [Which, granted, in his culture, he probably *doesn't* need, so long as they have their farewell, but....dying kids, man. No easy way to handle that subject matter.]
 
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