Session 3.04 - S3 Ep 1: The Rebellion of the Noldor

Haerangil said:
Well thats how the article at tolkien gateway summarizes it. So what does galadriel think? She's not completely with feanor , she rejects to give him a lock of her hair thrice. On the other hand she is moved by his words and he seems to have his influence on her despite her opposition. Plus she wants freedom, adventure and - let's face this - power and a dominion on her own. She joins her brothers, but still has a vision and goal on her own apart from her brothers intentions... I also still like the short account in unfinished tales in which she and celeborn fought at alqualonde on behalf of the teleri. Of course celeborn is absent in our version, but we still can have galadriel be there and intervent, but fail to stop the noldor and teleri in all the chaos and confusion.
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She could personally dislike Feanor and oppose his dominance, but still want to go to Middle-Earth. We could show her opposing Feanor but nonetheless echoing a lot of his arguments for going, in the same way that Feanor opposes Melkor but still fills his speech with Melkor's lies. At Alqualonde, she could enter on the side of the Noldor but be so shocked by the bloodshed that she switches sides and tries to protect the Teleri. Afterward she can struggle with what happened and whether she still wants to go to Middle-Earth.

Haerangil said:
What was alqualonde like? The noldor agressively demanding ships, the teleri aggressively denying, the noldor trying to seize, the teleri stepping in the way, a brawl, guards mistaking the situation from afar, one arrow shot, a dead noldo, noldor grapping their blades, teleri grapping their spears, chaos, confusion, bloodshet, more moldor appearing seeing nothing but battle and joining the others, more teleri joining the fight...
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This might be getting ahead of schedule a little, but I would show it starting as a miscalculation by Feanor. He hatches a plan to take the ships to Middle-Earth, and assumes the Teleri will join the Noldor--why wouldn't they? Don't they understand they are being imprisoned by the Valar? He goes to the Teleri, and they refuse. He gets angry and makes a plan to seize the ships, but believes that he and his sons with a small group of loyal Noldor can rush in and seize the ships, because he doesn't believe the Teleri are capable of fighting back. The Noldor don't go in looking for a fight, and the TEleri aren't planning a defense, but a battle develops and spirals out of control.

Are we going to show Feanor going to Alqualonde to speak to the Teleri this episode? I think it would make a great episode closing scene to show Olwe refusing him and telling him to be gone, and Feanor striding out looking wrathful. But it might be too much material for the first episode.
 
Brian Dimmick said:
She could personally dislike Feanor and oppose his dominance, but still want to go to Middle-Earth. We could show her opposing Feanor but nonetheless echoing a lot of his arguments for going, in the same way that Feanor opposes Melkor but still fills his speech with Melkor's lies. At Alqualonde, she could enter on the side of the Noldor but be so shocked by the bloodshed that she switches sides and tries to protect the Teleri. Afterward she can struggle with what happened and whether she still wants to go to Middle-Earth.
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I agree -- she's not a fan of Feanor, at all, but she was taken in by Morgoth, at least in our depiction, and so she'll likely be parroting some of his words and suggestions, even now. Anti-Valar, Pro-Middle Earth doesn't require her to be a comfortable ally of Feanor. Also, remember, her grandfather has just been brutally murdered and treasures of her kin stolen -- that's got to rankle, even if she doesn't particularly like the kinsman who was robbed.

How about, instead of having her actively take part on the Teleri side, we show her frozen with indecision at Alqualonde? She'll have clear divided loyalties throughout that sequence, and her inability to prioritize or choose between them could be a humbling moment for her. Maybe not at first -- her self-anger and embarrassment might push her to continue, to prove herself, when her father turns back, but she wouldn't forget, and it could force some self-reflection on her part. That might explain why, once she gets to Middle Earth, she apprentices herself to Melian rather than immediately setting up on her own.
 
Haerangil said:
Setting up Galadriel as Melians pupil could be an interesting twist of the stortline... the base for it is hinted at in the text, I think we should follow that trail.
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"Melian's pupil/apprentice" is a phrase I've stolen from Corey's discussions on this. So I can't take credit for the idea, but I like it.

Really, I just like giving Galadriel a storyline. Not to disparage the great Professor Tolkien in any way, but I dislike exceedingly his continual elevation of Galadriel post-LotR, making her practically all wise and knowing from the beginning by the end. The flawed, gifted woman of the published texts is much more interesting to me.
 
I agree. Her wisdom comes from the pain of the experience of (her own and others') bad or problematic decisions and their disastrous consequences. I'd love to see her becoming Melian's apprentice as a reaction to her not being at peace with her actions during the Kinslaying (and with other choices she's made, her listening to Melkor etc).
 
I think galadriels journey from the young, hot hearted girl who is into athletic feats and fighting towatds the wise powerful enchantress would be most interesting. Wasn't galadriels full name Nerwen Artanis Alatariel? I think Nerwen and Artanis hint towards male or manly attributes... What about making young galadriel a bit tomboyish?
 
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These are her names:

Artanis (Q, fn), means "noble woman"
Nerwen (Q, mn), for her height and strength of body and will
Alatáriel (T, epessë), for her golden hair

It's an interesting thought.

Also:

  • Reminder: casting subforum for Season 3
  • What did we decide for funeral customs for the Noldor, particularly Finwe?
 
I imagine we will discuss funeral ideas tomorrow. I am putting in the idea of a funeral procession for Finwë, since that seemed well-received, and anyone listening live can advocate for their favorite elvish funeral practices in addition to that.
 
Well, being a Star Wars and Marvel Cinematic Universe fan, I like the ideas of funeral pyre and/or funeral boats, particularly the end of the funeral in Thor: The Dark World as the boat dissolves and the remains, almost astral, rise to the stars. Could foreshadow Feanor's fate, as his body combusts when he dies.


 
The funeral boat depicted in Thor is, of course, meant to recall the funeral practices of the Vikings.

I really can't see any reason to put Finwë's body in a boat, send it off into the ocean, and then set it on fire. There's no reason.

Tolkien does make use of funeral pyres on some occasions - there are the Burned Dwarves and of course Denethor. But both of those situations are deemed unusual and out of the ordinary. I can't think why we would want to have one here, aside from the visual effect of the fire against the starlit sky, since the Trees are dark now. But, I mean, we can just hold some lanterns and dig a grave; it's not that big of a deal.
 
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Fingon will also die with a smashed in head. His death occurs when he runs into Gothmog during the battle of Unnumbered Tears, and the Balrog hits him hard enough to cleave his helmet in half. Naturally, his head does not survive this treatment. Then, the balrog's lackeys trample his body. So, again, he should not be a pretty corpse, despite probably being a very pretty living person.

Google image search "Fingon's Death" and what do you find?

Why, this:

jennydolfennirnaetharnoediadunnumberedtears.jpg


Jenny Dolfen asked her husband to lay on the ground and play dead as the model for this painting. So, naturally, Fingon looks a bit more intact than he probably should! ;)
 
MithLuin said:
Fingon will also die with a smashed in head. His death occurs when he runs into Gothmog during the battle of Unnumbered Tears, and the Balrog hits him hard enough to cleave his helmet in half. Naturally, his head does not survive this treatment. Then, the balrog's lackeys trample his body. So, again, he should not be a pretty corpse, despite probably being a very pretty living person.

Google image search "Fingon's Death" and what do you find?

Why, this:

jennydolfennirnaetharnoediadunnumberedtears.jpg


Jenny Dolfen asked her husband to lay on the ground and play dead as the model for this painting. So, naturally, Fingon looks a bit more intact than he probably should! ;)
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I don't know, for some reason I've imagined Fingon getting cut in half from head to spine.
 
That's hard to achieve... If one gets cut in two halves a more reasonable way is to get split in the body mid.
 
Well, it is a possibility with a flaming axe. Could cut though armor like a hot knife (literally) on butter.
 
Sure, but how precise or accurate would such a cut be? I mean, bodies are relatively soft and flexible.
 
Wouldn't bet against Gothmog. Fingon was wrapped up in a flaming whip by another Balrog at the time. Maybe we have Gothmog... practicing that move.
 
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