Elrond, Celeborn, Galadriel and Gandalf (obviously no elf) speak telepathically at the end of LOTR. Tolkien wrote an essay on it, but it was an ability all Children of Illuvatar had, but men were just hopeless at it. Numenoreans were known to summon their horses by thought alone.
Session 3.16 - S3Ep11: The Making of the Sun and the Moon
- Thread starter MithLuin
- Start date
Nicholas Palazzo
Well-Known Member
We have not yet fully established telepathy as a thing amongst the elves, but we will. We have to be careful with this, though: there are a number of issues that are brought up if the elves have easy and limitless telepathic communication available to them. Keeping Maeglin and Eol in Gondolin does not afford them any security, because they can just telepathically send out the location to whomever they want. Fingon can just ask Maedhros where he is instead of searching for him. The various battles of Beleriand can be coordinated telepathically, which they clearly are not. And these are just the examples I can think of off the top of my head right now.
Yes I can see the problems. It's easy to write that telepathy in general is stronger the closer you are to an individual and even stronger with eye contact. It's very hard to get that across on screen.
Exactly.
While telepathic communication is certainly an ability open to the elves (the essay in question is Osanwe-kenta), we will be using it only sparingly onscreen. We will either have to give it limits of distance, make it something only certain people can do, or keep it very unclear how and why it can be used.
Because if all elves can communicate telepathically with one another at all times, then we might as well have given everyone a palantir. And that would wreck havoc on multiple storylines (even if they are able to block out Morgoth, which....)
We likely will show Galadriel develop her telepathic ability after her time with Melian. And thus it will look like a skill that she can have (or at least have to a much greater extent) while other elves do not.
Finrod will have to demonstrate some mind-reading abilities when he meets Men, but that might not be something we introduce much before that. Or, he may have only communicated long distance with Galadriel or something.
Which means, for the current situation, we may want to show Melian communicating with Thingol about the surprise attack.
While telepathic communication is certainly an ability open to the elves (the essay in question is Osanwe-kenta), we will be using it only sparingly onscreen. We will either have to give it limits of distance, make it something only certain people can do, or keep it very unclear how and why it can be used.
Because if all elves can communicate telepathically with one another at all times, then we might as well have given everyone a palantir. And that would wreck havoc on multiple storylines (even if they are able to block out Morgoth, which....)
We likely will show Galadriel develop her telepathic ability after her time with Melian. And thus it will look like a skill that she can have (or at least have to a much greater extent) while other elves do not.
Finrod will have to demonstrate some mind-reading abilities when he meets Men, but that might not be something we introduce much before that. Or, he may have only communicated long distance with Galadriel or something.
Which means, for the current situation, we may want to show Melian communicating with Thingol about the surprise attack.
In the Letter about the ring, Tolkien mentions how there contact between minds is always stronger in person and especially strong with eye contact. Perhaps it can be established that only very gifted Elves can communicate easily with minds and the strongest can do it from a distance.
Yes this can be established as a skill Galadriel is very gifted at.
Ange1e4e5
Well-Known Member
Or something that is unique to Finarfin’s children?
I think unique is going too far, because after all Elrond will also have skill at this. I also don't want to go down the X-Men path with each elf having their own unique ability. I do however, think we can have certain abilities stronger in certain families.
Finrod/Galadriel could be very skilled at telepathy and elvish magic in general.
The House of Fingolfin can be noted for being exceptionally tall, strong and warlike.
Fearno---Curufin---Celebrimbor are the greatest artisans.
Luthien-Elrond-Elrohir/Elladan are skilled healers.
All elves have these skills in some measure, just some are much more gifted than others like we have families that are great at sport, musically talented etc.
amysrevenge
Well-Known Member
I'm hesitant to take the Hobbit as word for word literal canon. I think it should be treated as if the in-world writer or the modern age translator (or both) are taking liberties with both details and tone to adjust it to be a children's story.
Ange1e4e5
Well-Known Member
If you don’t use the canon, what do you use?
You consider the context of it. The stone trolls of the Hobbit speak in a manner that might seem surprising when one meets the cave troll of Moria.
Peter Jackson's film made sure Bilbo only heard the spiders speaking while he had the Ring on. I don't like those films, but I know Corey Olsen has pointed out that choice as a well-done one (IIRC from a conversation at Mythmoot II).
Peter Jackson's film made sure Bilbo only heard the spiders speaking while he had the Ring on. I don't like those films, but I know Corey Olsen has pointed out that choice as a well-done one (IIRC from a conversation at Mythmoot II).
Okay...whew. Consolidating a month-long discussion and nearly 200 posts into 5 powerpoint slides was not fun. Naturally, I had to leave a lot out. Sorry about that, guys. I tried. I did send some supplemental material to the hosts with more detail in it, but still.
Nicholas Palazzo
Well-Known Member
Thanks so much for even attempting such a Herculean task!
Did we decide not to include the Battle of the Lammoth? I know we chose not to have Argon, right (?), so since his brave death in that battle won't happen, perhaps we decided to skip the whole thing. I can't remember - does anyone know what has been said? (If we do include it, it should be just before the rising of the Moon).
NotACat
Active Member
Shelob has a "sting", as Sam was able to get under her and out of its reach (in "The Choices of Master Samwise"). I think people get a bit hung up on the technicalities when JRRT only ever said that Shelob and Ungoliant took the form of spiders but weren't exact copies. Frankly the bizarre and wonderful variation in form of real, actual spiders is enough to give pause to anybody trying to nail down what either of them or their offspring might have looked like: try looking up "pelican spiders"!
Shelob's sting refers to her bite; Samwise was out of reach of her mouth while he was under her.
We discussed Ungoliant's appearance in the 'Beasts' thread here:
https://forums.signumuniversity.org/index.php?threads/beasts.253/page-3
We discussed Ungoliant's appearance in the 'Beasts' thread here:
https://forums.signumuniversity.org/index.php?threads/beasts.253/page-3
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