Session 4.02 - Season 4 Episode Outlines

OK so what rumours are there? Is one of the host of followers of a Noldor Prince spreading stories (should we show this)? The ship burning is already known by now, right? What else? How much rumour can there be, without the whole thing being given away?

What I mean, specifically, is what story has been told, by whom, to whom, to start rumours? Something as small as "there was... unpleasantness when we took the ships", or something as big as "blood was spilled"? Any worse than "blood was spilled" and it's basically the whole story.
 
Do we want the Noldor to lie about anything?

For instance, it's natural that the Sindar would be eager for news of the Teleri - are they coming? How is their life in Valinor? One could say that the Teleri are quite happy and describe Alqualondë...while leaving out the entire Kinslaying and murder of Olwë. That's a pretty big lie of omission.

But they could also claim that the Valar have sent them to Middle-earth, in an attempt to grasp at some legitimacy. That...is an outright lie.

Or some other twisted white-washing of the truth that is so off base that it is clearly a lie, even if technically true, 'from a certain point of view.'
 
Yeah the more I think about it, it's a really tight spot we are in here. It's easy enough in overview to say that they don't divulge the Kinslaying, but the practicality of it - they're either evading or lying pretty much at question number one, and two, and three...
 
I think that having the Noldor lie makes sense. At this point in the story, they're a bit ashamed of how their rebellion played out. They are running into people who have never murdered anyone, and faced with that innocence, they naturally feel a bit guilty and defensive.

But, yes - the nuance of *what* lies, *what* silences, *what* speculation on the part of the Sindar.
We want there to be a false foundation, built up and covered over by more and more dishonesty, until the house of cards comes tumbling down and the truth is revealed.

What is suspicious? What doesn't add up? Who has a guilty conscience and speaks up? Or who chooses to reveal truths to make others look bad? The simmering tension between the camp of Fingolfin and the camp of the Fëanoreans in episode 1 is *not* resolved with the crowning of Fingolfin in episode 2 - that simmering continues on. One does not easily set aside the ordeal of the crossing of the Helcaraxë, and if one were personally guiltless in the Kinslaying....
 
There are lies, and then there are lies. "Olwë says hi" is a BIGGIE. "Things are fine over there, but let's talk about Beleriand! We don't want to talk about Valinor stuff" is smaller, but unsustainable for long.
 
I'm slowly reading through this thread. I apologize for not being able to join in sooner. These are my thoughts, responses, and prefereces so far:



I feel very strongly that Eöl’s story needs to be told in flashbacks, to avoid messing up the timeline any further and to avoid causing even more plot holes. Every time we’ve changed the order of events, it has caused plot holes and bigger problems than anticipated.


I don’t want to show the Noldor lying outright. They will lie by omission big-time, but they shouldn't outright declare themselves messengers of the Valar. The Sindar just assume they are, and the Noldor let them think it.
The Sons of Feanor dislike the Valar too much to claim to be such, and the other rebels who would rather have been messengers of the Valar would find such a lie too ... sacreligious, for lack of a better word.


Thingol grants the north to the Noldor as a gift for helping them against Morgoth (Hithlum, Nevrast, Dorthonion, Himring, Thargelion)
Thingol should be very welcoming, happy to send his representatives to the Feast of Reuniting, etc.

I don’t understand why. That doesn’t fit the way Thingol behaves. Even before he knows of the Kinslaying, he resents the Noldor and treats them rudely, sending a rather rude message via Angrod that amounts to “get off my lawn”.


Whose fault is it that Glaurung gets out early?
Glaurung’s own fault, to emphasize that he’s a new boss-level person in Angband. And Morgoth is displeased that his initiative backfired.

I think that Sauron should be the corruptor of Men at Hildórien, rather than Morgoth, because the story goes that the corruptor was beautiful and beguiling. Morgoth going first and then sending Sauron could work, but I am not sure how to work out the details so it works. Dragons should be Morgoth’s project but Sauron can help with them – whoever went to Hildórien returned in time for the Dagor Aglareb, according to Tolkien.


Corey wanted Fingon to rescue Maedhros in episode one. I have been saying that it should happen in E2 but I guess that with a proper buildup it could work. I think we just have to make sure that there's enough tension and uncertainty before we see what Fingon is up to, before we see him succeeding and before they return with Thorondor and everyone is happy.

I think Episode 2 would be better for it, too. Tension and uncertainty is good, and there should be a period of time when Fingon is inexplicably missing and Fingolfin’s camp get seriously worried about it.


Also we need something for Amrod (or was it Amras?) to do.
Where did he end up last season? I want him to meet and talk to Maedhros after he's been rescued. Maybe he is one of the reasons Maedhros gives the highkingship to Fingolfin?


I think that Amras hangs out with Maedhros more than most of the other brothers, while he’s recovering. Amras is super pissed at his other brothers for killing Amrod, is getting lonely as the sole surviving twin estranged from his brothers, and was especially devastated by losing Maedhros (the only brother he didn’t hate).

Giving the crown to Fingolfin has to be all Maedhros’ idea, with no input. He whole-heartedly wants the stupid feud healed. The Grey Annals emphasize that none of his brothers agreed with him about it. He has to make them put up with it anyway, asserting his will and showing them he’s not broken. I think he would need to tell them a few hours before the big reveal to Fingolfin, but only to shout them all down ahead of time, make it clear he doesn’t care about their objections, and threaten Celegorm and Caranthir with severe humiliation if they speak out of turn or say/do anything stupid while he’s giving the crown to Fingolfin.


So the Feast of reuniting could be in E2. I see you're thinking MithLuin that Celeborn and Galadriel perhaps attend as a couple? Not sure what you're suggesting. But I suggest that they meet there. I came up with the idea that Galadriel sees the ships of the Falathrim and that it makes her confess to Celeborn about the Kinslaying.


Galadriel can’t confess the Kinslaying to Celeborn. In the book Angrod does so, in front of Thingol, years later. If Galadriel told Celeborn, of course he would tell Thingol. There are rumors before Angrod tells Thingol, rumors spread by Morgoth’s spies, but no confession or proof.


We have to decide how much of the text we think is usable. It has some problems, imho.

Stages/events:
1. Thingol learns of the arrival of the Noldor. He welcomes them but “not with a full heart” because a lot of princes arrive wanting lands. As he realises Morgoth will attack again he wants to make alliances and accepts that Finarfin’s kin pass through the Girdle of Melian. Angrod visits as messenger and tells very little: about the deeds of the Noldor in the North and about their numbers. (Perhaps he also says the Noldor are the messengers of the Valar? This lie is referred to later by Melian but I’m not sure who said it.)
Thingol accepts Noldor settlements in Hithlum, Dorthonion and the lands East of Doriath, but sends a message that the Noldor have to behave and that Sindar live all over Beleriand, and he is the Lord of Beleriand.
2. At the council of the Noldor, Thingol’s welcome is considered ‘cold’ and Caranthir cries at Angrod questioning his role as messenger. The Noldor settle.
3. Finrod and Galadriel at Doriath. Galadriel is in love with Celeborn and gets to know Melian.
OMG nothing has actually really been said at this point!!
4. Galadriel’s silence about anything after the death of the Trees makes Melian confront her: “there is a woe upon you and your kin”. You aren’t the messengers of the Valar. Were you driven in exile? Galadriel says they went against the will of the Valar to seek vengeance and to regain what Morgoth stole. She tells about the Silmarils and the slaying of Finwë.
Melian tells Thingol and he says ok that’s good. Melian: “Beware of the sons of Fëanor!” (Come with evil) Thingol: Ok I don’t care.
5. Tales and secrets spread among the Sindar about the deeds of the Noldor. This is the most unclear part I think.
6. Cirdan acts on the rumours and sends a messenger (Galdor?) to Doriath.
7. Messenger comes to Doriath and Thingol gets upset with Finrod and Angrod, who are visiting. Angrod is also upset and tells them about the Kinslaying, the Doom of Mandos, the burning of the ships and the Helcaraxë.


What’s the problem with that trajectory? I don’t want to change/replace the way the book depicts Melian and Thingol learning these things.
The nebulous source of the rumors (5) is Morgoth’s doppleganger spies, demons who can disguise themselves as Elves, even as specific Elves who happen not to be in the room at the time. The question in my mind is, do we want the audience to know Morgoth has spies like that yet, or keep the situation confusing until the dopplegangers are revealed during the Bereg and Amlach story in Season 5?


Both Fingolfin’s crowning and the Feast have to be after the Noldor learn Sindarin, and that should take time, not be instant. Sindarin and Quenya really truly need to be separate languages.


Zirak as a young silversmith who makes the Nauglamir at the completion of Nargothrond
I do not want to marry us to the Nauglamir being made for Finrod. That isn’t how Tolkien wanted it written, it was changed by Christopher Tolkien for not a very good reason.


Yes, I am a bit concerned about dropping the Feanorean storyline completely after the Feast of Reuniting.
We had a bunch of ideas about what they’re up to, in the threads about not killing off Amras. Ideas about how Caranthir interacts with Dwarves, and how Amras sticks his nose in it and almost sabotages it.


How much do we want to show of the petty-dwarves? Are they kind of eastereggs for later so people can go back when watching the Túrin season and say "oh they were here all the time!", or fully developed characters this season? Do we show their conflict with the other dwarves?
I think maybe they could be introduced when they're cast out of Nargothrond or when the feanoreans accidentally hunts them. Maybe they hunt them and appologises to the dwarves of the blue mountains, but they aren't sorry because they were petty-dwarves?


I don’t want the Feanorians to hunt the Petty-dwarves. The Sindar did do so in the books, but that was dropped from SilmFilm. And they live by the Narog, not in East Beleriand. I do want to show the greater Dwarves forcing them out of Nargothrond, and giving it to Finrod while keeping the previous inhabitants secret from him because they realize he would not approve of ethnic cleansing. They tell him it was one of their own fortresses that they don’t need anymore now, with all the Noldor around to keep the Orcs down. That explains why it’s clearly a lived-in place.

If there isn't time to show it happening, we can have the Dwarves act an talk (among themselves) in a suspicious way that hints things are not as clean as they make it seem to Finrod. (Yes, he's the World's Best Elven Telepath, but mind-reading is easy to block by a secretive person.)
 
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What’s the problem with that trajectory? I don’t want to change/replace the way the book depicts Melian and Thingol learning these things.
The nebulous source of the rumors (5) is Morgoth’s doppleganger spies, demons who can disguise themselves as Elves, even as specific Elves who happen not to be in the room at the time. The question in my mind is, do we want the audience to know Morgoth has spies like that yet, or keep the situation confusing until the dopplegangers are revealed during the Bereg and Amlach story in Season 5?
My problem wasn’t about the sequence of it all but that there were plot holes that isn’t visible in a summary but will make the story hard to follow and understand in a tv series unless they’re filled in. My aim was to start a discussion to fill in those holes, rather than to change it all and create new problems.
 
I'm slowly reading through this thread. I apologize for not being able to join in sooner. These are my thoughts, responses, and prefereces so far:



I feel very strongly that Eöl’s story needs to be told in flashbacks, to avoid messing up the timeline any further and to avoid causing even more plot holes. Every time we’ve changed the order of events, it has caused plot holes and bigger problems than anticipated.


I don’t want to show the Noldor lying outright. They will lie by omission big-time, but they shouldn't outright declare themselves messengers of the Valar. The Sindar just assume they are, and the Noldor let them think it.
The Sons of Feanor dislike the Valar too much to claim to be such, and the other rebels who would rather have been messengers of the Valar would find such a lie too ... sacreligious, for lack of a better word.


Thingol grants the north to the Noldor as a gift for helping them against Morgoth (Hithlum, Nevrast, Dorthonion, Himring, Thargelion)
Thingol should be very welcoming, happy to send his representatives to the Feast of Reuniting, etc.

I don’t understand why. That doesn’t fit the way Thingol behaves. Even before he knows of the Kinslaying, he resents the Noldor and treats them rudely, sending a rather rude message via Angrod that amounts to “get off my lawn”.


Whose fault is it that Glaurung gets out early?
Glaurung’s own fault, to emphasize that he’s a new boss-level person in Angband. And Morgoth is displeased that his initiative backfired.

I think that Sauron should be the corruptor of Men at Hildórien, rather than Morgoth, because the story goes that the corruptor was beautiful and beguiling. Morgoth going first and then sending Sauron could work, but I am not sure how to work out the details so it works. Dragons should be Morgoth’s project but Sauron can help with them – whoever went to Hildórien returned in time for the Dagor Aglareb, according to Tolkien.


Corey wanted Fingon to rescue Maedhros in episode one. I have been saying that it should happen in E2 but I guess that with a proper buildup it could work. I think we just have to make sure that there's enough tension and uncertainty before we see what Fingon is up to, before we see him succeeding and before they return with Thorondor and everyone is happy.

I think Episode 2 would be better for it, too. Tension and uncertainty is good, and there should be a period of time when Fingon is inexplicably missing and Fingolfin’s camp get seriously worried about it.


Also we need something for Amrod (or was it Amras?) to do.
Where did he end up last season? I want him to meet and talk to Maedhros after he's been rescued. Maybe he is one of the reasons Maedhros gives the highkingship to Fingolfin?


I think that Amras hangs out with Maedhros more than most of the other brothers, while he’s recovering. Amras is super pissed at his other brothers for killing Amrod, is getting lonely as the sole surviving twin estranged from his brothers, and was especially devastated by losing Maedhros (the only brother he didn’t hate).

Giving the crown to Fingolfin has to be all Maedhros’ idea, with no input. He whole-heartedly wants the stupid feud healed. The Grey Annals emphasize that none of his brothers agreed with him about it. He has to make them put up with it anyway, asserting his will and showing them he’s not broken. I think he would need to tell them a few hours before the big reveal to Fingolfin, but only to shout them all down ahead of time, make it clear he doesn’t care about their objections, and threaten Celegorm and Caranthir with severe humiliation if they speak out of turn or say/do anything stupid while he’s giving the crown to Fingolfin.


So the Feast of reuniting could be in E2. I see you're thinking MithLuin that Celeborn and Galadriel perhaps attend as a couple? Not sure what you're suggesting. But I suggest that they meet there. I came up with the idea that Galadriel sees the ships of the Falathrim and that it makes her confess to Celeborn about the Kinslaying.


Galadriel can’t confess the Kinslaying to Celeborn. In the book Angrod does so, in front of Thingol, years later. If Galadriel told Celeborn, of course he would tell Thingol. There are rumors before Angrod tells Thingol, rumors spread by Morgoth’s spies, but no confession or proof.


We have to decide how much of the text we think is usable. It has some problems, imho.

Stages/events:
1. Thingol learns of the arrival of the Noldor. He welcomes them but “not with a full heart” because a lot of princes arrive wanting lands. As he realises Morgoth will attack again he wants to make alliances and accepts that Finarfin’s kin pass through the Girdle of Melian. Angrod visits as messenger and tells very little: about the deeds of the Noldor in the North and about their numbers. (Perhaps he also says the Noldor are the messengers of the Valar? This lie is referred to later by Melian but I’m not sure who said it.)
Thingol accepts Noldor settlements in Hithlum, Dorthonion and the lands East of Doriath, but sends a message that the Noldor have to behave and that Sindar live all over Beleriand, and he is the Lord of Beleriand.
2. At the council of the Noldor, Thingol’s welcome is considered ‘cold’ and Caranthir cries at Angrod questioning his role as messenger. The Noldor settle.
3. Finrod and Galadriel at Doriath. Galadriel is in love with Celeborn and gets to know Melian.
OMG nothing has actually really been said at this point!!
4. Galadriel’s silence about anything after the death of the Trees makes Melian confront her: “there is a woe upon you and your kin”. You aren’t the messengers of the Valar. Were you driven in exile? Galadriel says they went against the will of the Valar to seek vengeance and to regain what Morgoth stole. She tells about the Silmarils and the slaying of Finwë.
Melian tells Thingol and he says ok that’s good. Melian: “Beware of the sons of Fëanor!” (Come with evil) Thingol: Ok I don’t care.
5. Tales and secrets spread among the Sindar about the deeds of the Noldor. This is the most unclear part I think.
6. Cirdan acts on the rumours and sends a messenger (Galdor?) to Doriath.
7. Messenger comes to Doriath and Thingol gets upset with Finrod and Angrod, who are visiting. Angrod is also upset and tells them about the Kinslaying, the Doom of Mandos, the burning of the ships and the Helcaraxë.


What’s the problem with that trajectory? I don’t want to change/replace the way the book depicts Melian and Thingol learning these things.
The nebulous source of the rumors (5) is Morgoth’s doppleganger spies, demons who can disguise themselves as Elves, even as specific Elves who happen not to be in the room at the time. The question in my mind is, do we want the audience to know Morgoth has spies like that yet, or keep the situation confusing until the dopplegangers are revealed during the Bereg and Amlach story in Season 5?


Both Fingolfin’s crowning and the Feast have to be after the Noldor learn Sindarin, and that should take time, not be instant. Sindarin and Quenya really truly need to be separate languages.


Zirak as a young silversmith who makes the Nauglamir at the completion of Nargothrond
I do not want to marry us to the Nauglamir being made for Finrod. That isn’t how Tolkien wanted it written, it was changed by Christopher Tolkien for not a very good reason.


Yes, I am a bit concerned about dropping the Feanorean storyline completely after the Feast of Reuniting.
We had a bunch of ideas about what they’re up to, in the threads about not killing off Amras. Ideas about how Caranthir interacts with Dwarves, and how Amras sticks his nose in it and almost sabotages it.


How much do we want to show of the petty-dwarves? Are they kind of eastereggs for later so people can go back when watching the Túrin season and say "oh they were here all the time!", or fully developed characters this season? Do we show their conflict with the other dwarves?
I think maybe they could be introduced when they're cast out of Nargothrond or when the feanoreans accidentally hunts them. Maybe they hunt them and appologises to the dwarves of the blue mountains, but they aren't sorry because they were petty-dwarves?


I don’t want the Feanorians to hunt the Petty-dwarves. The Sindar did do so in the books, but that was dropped from SilmFilm. And they live by the Narog, not in East Beleriand. I do want to show the greater Dwarves forcing them out of Nargothrond, and giving it to Finrod while keeping the previous inhabitants secret from him because they realize he would not approve of ethnic cleansing. They tell him it was one of their own fortresses that they don’t need anymore now, with all the Noldor around to keep the Orcs down. That explains why it’s clearly a lived-in place.

If there isn't time to show it happening, we can have the Dwarves act an talk (among themselves) in a suspicious way that hints things are not as clean as they make it seem to Finrod. (Yes, he's the World's Best Elven Telepath, but mind-reading is easy to block by a secretive person.)
If the Feanorians aren’t hunting the Petty-Dwarves, what are they doing instead?
 
Regarding the hunting of petty dwarves. ...

We could have them evicted from Nargothrond by the dwarves, and while some move to Amon Rudh, others try to go east towards the Blue Mountains. ..thus passing through Feanorean territory and allowing them to be mistaken for orcs by elves who have never met dwarves before. Then, Caranthir meets dwarves. In other words, that incident would be a way to tie the stories together and get another glimpse of the petty dwarf/dwarf relationship.
 
The trouble I see with that is that nobody evicts them from Nargothrond until after Finrod has made friends with the larger Dwarves. News of that is going to travel to the other Noldor. The Feanorians will know very well that these are Dwarves. Not even Feanorians hunt people for sport.

I would think that Finrod or one of his siblings is going to meet Norn (or the next ambassador) in Doriath before too long. Even if they've retreated from Beleriand for now, they'll be back soon. Thingol might very well tell Angrod about the Dwarves before he has a chance to meet one.

If it's important to people to have the Feanorians do this... or if the Hosts say they must... my suggestion is that there's a separate sub-group of Petty-Dwarves that have moved back eastward into the mountains near Rerir, and the greater Dwarves chase them out of there just because they don't want the rejects/outlaws anywhere near "their" mountain range. So the Petty-Dwarves would be on their way back west to Narog, and would be passing through the Himring area and/or Dorthonion just as the Feanorians arrive. The Petty-Dwarves attack first at night because they hate Elves (as they attack Sindar in the books) and the Feanorians mow them down.

If the Feanorians aren’t hunting the Petty-Dwarves, what are they doing instead?
The stories we can tell include building Himring, participating in Dagor Aglareb, meeting the Dwarves, and setting up trade relations. Amras can go off to the southeast to get away from his brothers, and he can try to sabotage Caranthir's sweet trading deal, leading the Dwarves to use a different road that doesn't pass through his territory. 2 (or 3?) sons of Feanor will attend the Mereth Aderthad, and Maedhros will attend regular councils with the other princes of the Noldor to keep things coordinated. The Feast is an opportunity for Maglor and Daeron to have a musical contest. The Feanorians in general can also generally be rude to any Sindar they encounter. Curufin can continue to scheme against Maedhros, because does anyone believe he's really going to quit doing that? :p

My problem wasn’t about the sequence of it all but that there were plot holes that isn’t visible in a summary but will make the story hard to follow and understand in a tv series unless they’re filled in. My aim was to start a discussion to fill in those holes, rather than to change it all and create new problems.
OK, thanks for clarifying. Once I finish reading the rest of this thread I'll try to offer some ideas about filling in gaps in it.
 
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Another option for Feanorians this season is Azaghal and Maedhros (and/or their courts) establishing friendly relations, perhaps after Dagor Aglareb.)

So, what I have now:

Episode 1
Maglor also will move the Feanorian camp to the opposite side of Lake Mithrim, to get out of Fingolfin’s way. There would likely be an argument from some of his brothers (and we can showcase that he can’t keep them in hand), but they all realize that Fingolfin’s folk outnumber them. I think this is an opportunity for Amras to say something snarky and sarcastic like “Sure, let’s all run away, and hide from the consequences of our actions! Let’s bury our heads in the sand and pretend we never set ships and people on fire!”

If Fingolfin hasn't reforged his sword yet, now is the best time.

I think the ambassadorial trip of Angrod, and the conference in which Caranthir insults Angrod should happen before Fingolfin is declared King. Also the Noldor should meet the Sindar, send scouts to explore the area, and Cirdan should send his messenger to Doriath, before Fingolfin is crowned. That’s the order it happens in the books. We also need to include Maedhros giving back everything that was stolen from Fingolfin’s people (and not burned) plus additional gifts, horses, and livestock – this should also be before he cedes the crown, or the day afterwards.

What I mean is, Episodes 2 and 3 in your outline should be mostly switched places, MithLuin.

I suggest Episode 4 in your outline can be full of Eol’s flashbacks, and him complaining about these things to his gloomy servants.


This is also a season in which we’ll need to get used to using the Sun, Moon, and seasons to show time passing, even lots of time passing. We won’t be specifying how many years are passing, but we cannot allow the timeline to be shortened or contracted. So we should start in Episode 1 by showing that a few years passed as Fingolfin’s people “rested and grew strong”. Not to mention Maedhros needs to rest for a while. In my mind, it took the Noldor another 2 years to sit down and decide on a King because it took that long for Maedhros to be physically and emotionally well enough to deal directly with politics, and for anyone to hold him up seriously as somebody ready to take on kingly duties tomorrow.


Here’s the order of events that appear (or at least, occur) in this season, for reference (according to the Grey Annals, so, some undated events aren't included). I've color-coded them a bit:

2 Fingolfin’s host entered Mithrim and learned tidings (from Feanorians, in SilmFilm)
? this is probably when the Sindar and Fingolfin's host meet, and Cirdan sends a messenger to Doriath.
5 Fingon and Thorondor rescued Maedhros. Reunion of the Noldor.
6 The Ñoldor set a watch upon Dor-Daedeloth, explored Beleriand and the north], and met many Sindar. Finrod sent Angrod as an emissary to Doriath. Thingol was not especially welcoming, said they could live in the northlands but nowhere else.
7 Noldor held council. Angrod brought Thingol's message. Then Maedhros waived his claim, and Fingolfin became High King. (Afterwards Turgon’s folk settled Nevrast, the House of Finarfin settled Tol Sirion and Dorthonion, and the House of Fëanor settled NE Beleriand.)
? Ulmo sents indecipherable messages to the Mortals
? Morgoth learned of the Mortals’ awakening and went to Hildórien. (I suggest using Sauron instead)
20 Mereth Aderthad
50 Turgon and Finrod traveled to the Meres of Twilight, and Ulmo sent warning dreams to them
52 Thingol prompted Finrod to go to Nulukkizdîn. The great Dwarves stole Nulukkizdîn from the Petty-Dwarves, and gave it to Finrod. The Noldor and Dwarves began delving Nargothrond in secret.
53 Ulmo spoke to Turgon, and helped him find Tumladen
60 Morgoth returned to Angband. Dagor Aglareb. The Siege of Angband began.
64 Turgon’s folk began building Gondolin in secret
65 The Noldor helped rebuild Brithombar and Eglarest. Finrod Felagund’s folk built Barad Nimras.
66 Galadriel told Melian of the death of Finwë and the theft of the Silmarils
67 Angrod told Thingol of the Kinslaying and Losgar. Thingol banned Quenya (and jewels).
102 Nargothrond was full-wrought
116 Gondolin was full-wrought. Ulmo spoke to Turgon. The folk of Turgon secretly moved to Gondolin.
150 First meeting of the Dwarves of Eryd Luin and the folk of Caranthir
155 Orcs attacked Hithlum and were defeated
260 Glaurung, the first Dragon, attacked Hithlum and was defeated. (Soon after, Telchar wrought the Dragon-Helm and gave it to King Azaghâl.)


I really think Celeborn’s messenger to Doriath needs to be Annael. We need to establish that he is a character ASAP, and convince the Hosts to allow him to be a character sooner, rather than later.

In my mind, the politicking among the Noldor is going to be a lot of continued tension and uncertainty after Maedhros is rescued, but I wouldn’t say that only some of his brothers are glad to see him. I think at first he just leaves Maglor to keep taking care of things. Officially he's only a regent, but the Noldor are effectively still divided in leadership.

When Maedhros decides to cede the kingship, I think he makes it a surprise to Fingolfin’s side partly to make it clear that he didn’t have some secret agreement with Fingolfin and wasn’t pressured or bribed into doing this. As for his brothers... in my mind, he realizes (especially after Caranthir’s charming response to Angrod) that he can’t let them shoot their mouths off or argue with him during a delicate diplomatic council, while he’s trying to cement the reconciliation. So he gathers his brothers beforehand and tells them: This is what I am doing, no you do not have any say in it, no I do not need to hear your arguments against it, no I will not change my mind. I am the eldest and the chief of this house, and you will obey me. He probably has to shout them down, but we can show that he easily does so, unlike Maglor. And he tells them that during the council if any one of them says anything undiplomatic or rude, or gainsays Maedhros, he’ll have his guards escort them out of the room at once. Nobleman guards will be conveniently on hand as the bearers of the [unnecessarily fancy] chest containing the crown of Feanor. In my mind, that's how he prevents Caranthir and Celegorm from starting a shouting match during the council.

I think Fingolfin is going to look at the absurd job Feanor did reforging their father’s crown (with the 3 empty Silmaril-holes), and decide to reforge it back to what it used to look like.


There's something interesting going on with the House of Finarfin, and I want to make sure we tell that story well. Finrod, of course, will never marry - we saw that he left his Vanya girlfriend behind in Valinor. Angrod is already married. We have not introduced Eldalotë as a character yet, but she's almost definitely with them in exile. She's Noldo. Then, with the arrival in Middle-earth, we get the Galadriel-Celeborn and Orodreth-some Sinda lady romances. Both of them marry one of the Sindar. Obviously, this shows them getting along with the Sindar swimmingly, but also perhaps makes some of the other Noldor look at them askance. After all....Finarfin was the prince of the Noldor who married one of the Teleri. This willingness to marry the Sindar (along with Thingol's continued welcome of them in Doriath) could be seen as an indication to the other Noldor that the House of Finarfin is 'going native' or aligning itself more closely with the Sindar than the rest of the Noldor. There should be some distrust/scorn expressed over these marriages (though obviously not be everyone). It would be tempting to make Turgon one of the judgmental ones, but I'm not sure that fits.


The point of all this, of course, is that when Aegnor then falls in love with a mortal woman, it brings up the same issue, but much more sharply. Like, what, just because your brother and sister married into the Sindar, you think nothing of marrying someone from a different species!? And of course Aegnor won't marry her, but Finrod can't be the only one who knows about that relationship. I know we are using Aegnor/Andreth to introduce the possibility of a mortal/elf marriage before Beren and Lúthien, but I'd also like it to be the culmination of the story of the House of Finarfin being all too eager to marry outside the tribe.
The idea of the whole arc, of the House of Finarfin being the most ready to make friends with Sindar, and relating that somehow to Aegnor’s situation, is an interesting idea. I do think that among the princes, making the Feanorians judgmental about it will be enough. Most of the Noldor are willing to mingle with the Sindar, and there are other Noldor who marry Sindar. Voronwe and Pengolodh are both interracial, and I’m certain there must have been many other interracial Elves in Beleriand.

That doesn't mean that no Noldor view the Sindar as inferior Moriquendi; I'm sure many do, and not exclusively among the Feanorians. However, I don’t like the idea that this could come between Turgon and Finrod’s friendship. They’re best friends, like brothers, and while they’ll part ways early to set up their secret hideouts, I’m sure they part as best friends. I also don’t think Turgon, who married a Vanya, would have much of a leg to stand on. But... it's also not like Turgon. He lets his daughter marry a Human, and there's no mention that he hesitated or was uncomfortable about it.

But this is the season where we can show how from the start, the House of Finarfin are the most diplomatic and the most successful overall in making friends (discounting Caranthir's spectacular Dwarf-based success). Finrod is going to shine as the man who makes friends with everybody.
 
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For each episode, we will have the opportunity to discuss exactly what is in it and how things play out. So, it's true we don't have to worry *too* much about how and when the audience learns certain things. For now, we're looking to pace the story for the season and make sure there's a cohesive theme/storyline. But it looks like there will be many details that the *audience* learns at different times than the characters, so we will have to handle our tension delicately. [For instance, the audience knows all about the Kinslaying while Thingol and the Sindar remain in the dark. If we show the pre-council Fëanorean-only meeting where Maedhros lays down the law, then the audience will know that he is planning to cede his right to the crown before it happens, even if it's still a surprise to Fingolfin. If the bad guys tell us about Men or show us dragons, the audience will know before the Noldor. If we see petty-dwarves in Nargothrond, we'll know what they are before the elves in East-Beleriand meet them. The audience may discover that dwarves are mortal long before elves figure that out. Etc.]

So, the theme is the 'stronger together' idea where people who have differences have to learn to work together (just like in Season 1), but now there is an added layer of forgiveness of wrongs that was not present in the simple 'creative collaboration' storyline of the first season. These are groups that have reasons to dislike one another because people have been killed, but they (overall) are choosing not to get into feuds over it. Sorta. I think the main proponents of this theme should be Círdan, Finrod, and Galadriel. Círdan is (at the end of the day) more willing to collaborate with the Noldor than any other Sindar (even Beleg and Mablung are on more of a 'personal' level about it). Finrod is *everyone's* friend. And Galadriel is learning from Melian that it is wiser to use your personal insight in an empathetic way (or something - I'm not entirely sure where the line between Melian's wisdom and Galadriel's wisdom should be). If Azaghal is making alliances with the Noldor, then he could be the dwarvish voice for this.

The intra-Noldor tension (between the followers of Fingolfin and the House of Fëanor), the Sindar-Noldor tension over the Noldor claiming new lands and the eventual reveal of the Kinslaying, and the Dwarf/Petty-dwarf conflict where they are actually okay with inflicting real harm on each other are the three storylines we are attempting to tie together with this theme. Morgoth should be seeking to sow discord and working against this idea, of course.

The story should be saying that choosing isolation and cutting off ties is a negative thing, which at the very least casts a bit of a pall over Turgon's Gondolin, but should be most obvious in Eöl's Nan Elmoth.


So, there's a lot that has to happen in the opening episode (obviously), and there's no harm in listing that all out now, but the key detail we need to know is what event ends that episode (most likely, the rescue of Maedhros by Fingon). BUT, if people think the rescue should be pushed back to Episode 2, then we'd have to pick something else to end episode 1 with that is a sufficiently interesting show-opener. Reforging Ringil might be an option, but everything else that needs to happen early on sounds like build-up, not a note you want to end your first episode on.

I allowed episode 2 to focus on the meeting of the Sindar and the Noldor for the first time, so that gives time for messengers to be sent to Thingol and to have his reaction (and the Noldor reaction to his response) in the following episode. That's why I put the council with Caranthir telling off Angrod in Episode 3.

If we want to move that up to Episode 2, then Círdan would need to make contact with the Noldor in Episode 1. There is something to be said for getting the main conflict of the Season into the initial episode, certainly. If we did that, we would then allow the tension between the two Noldor camps to be the background to the 'meeting the Sindar' story, rather than the front-and-center story all by itself. Considering that tension and not talking to each other and muttering in the background isn't a very compelling main storyline, that could certainly improve the episode to switch the primary and secondary storylines like that.

IF we were going to do that, we should probably bring Círdan into contact with the Noldor immediately. The advantage here is that with other things going on, Fingon disappearing can truly happen in the background and no one even notices at first.

So, perhaps it would look like this:

Season 4 Overview

Episode 1
The Host of Fingolfin is encamped on the north end of Lake Mithrim, while the Host of Fëanor is encamped on the south. They are uneasy with one another, as the Fëanoreans never thought to see the elves they'd betrayed again. Fingolfin has learned of his (half-)brother Fëanor's death, and Fingon has learned that his (half-)cousin Maedhros is missing. The Fëanoreans are stuck and Maglor is not a decisive leader.

Círdan makes first contact with the Noldor. After an initial language barrier, they are able to communicate, and Círdan is both surprised and happy to learn that these elves have come from Valinor and are the descendants of the elves they said goodbye to ages ago. They ask after Finwë and Olwë, and want to know how and why the Noldor have come back. The Noldor dissemble. No one mentions the Kinslaying. They claim they have come back to fight Morgoth, and everyone agrees that is a good thing.

Morgoth sends a cloud of darkness to cover the land, so his evil creatures can move about freely in the sunlight. Seeing this, Fingon gets an idea and departs with a harp and a bow.

Círdan learns that some of the Noldor are descendants of Olwë, and invites them to come to Doriath as kin of the king (Elwë). Finrod cautions Angrod to behave diplomatically and speak as little of the Fëanoreans as possible. Does Galadriel go or stay? Who leads the trip? (Celeborn? Círdan? Or...?)

Meanwhile, Fingon reaches Thangorodrim and discovers where Maedhros is hanging out of reach. With the help of Thorondor, he manages to rescue his friend. A weakened and one-handed Maedhros is brought back to the camp.

Fingolfin reforges Ringil?
Telchar makes Narsil? Eöl reintroduced?


Episode 2
Círdan's group reaches Doriath and is admitted to Menegroth. Thingol meets Angrod (and...?) and welcomes him as kin and asks about Valinor. Angrod gives an extremely whitewashed version of the story thus far. He tells of Morgoth's wrongs, but sorta skips over the rebellion of the Noldor. He does not go so far as to call the Noldor emissaries of the Valar.

Thingol is less that satisfied with this tale, and concerned when he learns of a new standing army in Beleriand (even if it is between him and Morgoth). Thingol declares Doriath off-limit (except by invitation) and cautions the Noldor not to impinge on Sindar lands. Angrod considers his diplomatic mission a success - he's established kinship and friendship with Thingol, and gained permission for the Noldor to settle Beleriand.

Celeborn and Galadriel have a getting-to-know-you conversation. She is young and impetuous, and he is older and more likely to keep his thoughts to himself, but there is the first spark of mutual respect between them.

Angrod returns to the camp in the north. Finrod is pleased with how it went, but when Angrod presents Thingol's words to the gathered Noldor leaders, Caranthir has an immediate and violent reaction. He questions Angrod's authority to speak for all the Noldor, and considers Thingol's welcome too cold. Maedhros, who is still recovering but hale enough to attend the meeting, physically removes Caranthir and speaks more diplomatically, dismissing both Caranthir's concern and Thingol's authority outside his own borders.

The Noldor are left with a question of who will lead them now - are they destined to fracture apart?
The bad guys are very much alarmed by Thorondor's involvement in Maedhros' rescue. Morgoth suspects that the Second Children have awoken?


Episode 3
More Sindar-Noldor interactions

Maedhros gets his house in order. He rebukes Caranthir for the unwise outburst, and explains how that cost them. They need the Host of Fingolfin if they are going to fight the armies of Angband, and he's not going to let his brothers cost them that fragile alliance. Curufin has some things to say about Fingon and Angrod. Maedhros says that now that he's back, he's in charge, and they'll obey him. Amras and Maedhros have a private conversation.

The Noldor have a convocation(?) to discuss leadership. It is expected that the Host of Fingolfin will select Fingolfin and the Host of Fëanor will select Maedhros and there will be a permanent split into two separate people. Maedhros surprises them all (well, not Maglor or Fingon) by declaring Fingolfin the heir of Finwë and thus ceding his own claim as his father's heir. [Ie, he'll never use the name Nelyafinwë again....] Fingolfin is acclaimed as High King by all the Noldor

Fingolfin gives the Noldor some kingly advice about establishing themselves in Beleriand and staying on good terms with the Sindar.

Maedhros decides that the Fëanoreans will need to go to the East. It's the area that's hardest to defend from Morgoth, and it's far away from everyone else. He says goodbye to Fingon before they go, and they have some meaningful conversation about the hand that was cut off and the rescue that was supposed to be a mercy killing.

TBC....

What do people think of that approach to the first 3 episodes?
 
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[QUOTEMaedhros decides that the Fëanoreans will need to go to the East. It's the area that's hardest to defend from Morgoth, and it's far away from everyone else.][/QUOTE]

Well, celegorm & curufin secure the passses into beleriand, Maedhros & Maglor are also in the highlands, caranthir is even more secure up 7n the mountain vales at helevorn, amrod & Amras are in the plains... they almost all choose very tactical and well to defend positions to enclose angband...

The hardest to defend place would be the desert of lothlann, where theres flat land and the bulk of the cavalry would set up camp - of course they yet do not have too many horses... a problem they'll have to solve.
 
True, the plain right in front of Morgoth's gate is the toughest. But the other areas have highlands/mountains, which make them pretty defensible. Eastern Beleriand has a string of hills with Maglor's Gap in the midst of it.
 
I like most of that sketch. I have some more thoughts on Galadriel and Celeborn though. Their story doesn’t fly right now.

We seem to have problems finding the buildup to their falling in love. How does that happen? Maybe we’re moving from the wrong direction.

I suggest that they lay eyes on each other when Cirdan visits the Noldor in e2. They say hello and fall in love immediately. Both of them are confused by this and don’t do anything about it at that time, but it’s obvious something happens. They can even consider the thought of a relationship ridiculous or deeply problematic. Maybe Cirdan tells Celeborn he noticed his reaction and Celeborn is reluctant or even defensive, referring to age differences or something. This stage could go on for a while or be quite short.
Stage two: we do the scene by the ships that we’ve discussed. Alternatively, Celeborn speaks to her about Cuivienen, the Hunter and losses. Galadriel shows him images of her loss and he understands and is loving and considerate. This is when they realise they are meant for each other.
Stage three: they speak openly of love.

This way, we don’t have to show what Galadriel sees in Celeborn. It isn’t rational, it just happens.
 
I kind of like the way it feels reversed here, like he's out of her league, at least at first. She'll grow, and we can already see that she's going to grow, but she hasn't grown yet.
 
I kind of like the way it feels reversed here, like he's out of her league, at least at first. She'll grow, and we can already see that she's going to grow, but she hasn't grown yet.
That’s small potatoes compared to Beren and Luthien. Beren and Luthien might not have even shared afterlives if Luthien hadn’t chosen to be a mortal.
 
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We should probably come up with something for Lúthien to do in Seasons 4 and 5. She'll stay in Doriath, but....what is she up to there?
 
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