Session 4.06 - Overarching Storylines, Continued

Haakon

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About Dwarves, I have suggestions for two different storylines:

1. Finrod comes to Thingol telling him about his dreams from Ulmo, and his desire for an underground fortress similar to Menegroth.
2. Thingol talks to the Dwarves about it. Having heard that Finrod is rich, they suggest that they'll sell Nargothrond/Nulukkizdin to him.
3. Thingol tells Finrod and introduces him to the Dwarves. He is eager to make friends and willing to pay them handsomely. They lie, telling him Nulukkizdin was one of their old halls that they don't need anymore.
4. The Dwarves go to Nulukkizdin -- which is inhabited by Petty Dwarves -- and drive out the natives.
5. Finrod and his people are welcomd into Nulukkizdin and start modifying and enlarging it. Finrod has no idea it was stolen.
6. The Petty-Dwarves are really hacked off about this. They end up at Amon Rudh.

1. Caranthir encounters the Dwarves of the Blue Mountains. He initially does or says something very rude and they do not make friends with him.
2. The Dwarves start trading with Celegorm and Curufin. Celebrimbor makes friends, and both he and Curufin start learning some Khuzdul.
3. Amros, living on Amon Ereb, decides to mess with his brothers. He forbids the Dwarves to pass through the land he has claimed. He assumes they'll just stop trading with his brothers.
4. Instead, the Dwarves shorten their road and move it slightly north, into Thargelion, and take up trade with Caranthir.
5. Caranthir gets fabulously rich. Amros is not amused.
I like both of these storylines, particularly he first one. That one matches what we have discussed earlier, so I guess there could be a consensus. I like the second as well, but I'm not sure I think Amros should act that way. I can't really see why he would.
 
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Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
I like both of these storylines, particularly he first one. That one matches what we have discussed earlier, so I guess there could be a consensus. I like the second as well, but I'm not sure I think Amros should act that way. I can't really see why.
My guess is that Amras is still angry with his brothers for Amrod’s death.

Also, I’ve suggested that at one point Curufin asks Telchar to make a knife for him that can cut iron: Angrist, later taken by Beren and used to cut a Silmaril from Morgoth’s crown of iron.
 
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Haakon

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Staff member
I think yes, Amras is still angry. But messing with the trade like that is just picking a fight. It feels unworthy and a bit uncharacteristic, in my opinion.
 

Haakon

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Staff member
Perhaps we could have Caranthir acting in an unexpected way. A version of Faelivrin's idea could be that the Dwarves encounter Amras first, but he's not interested in trading, or any exchange at all. He could be rather rude, in fact. After that, they encounter Caranthir, and he surprisingly accepts to start trading. It's not an elegant idea, but it could work.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
Perhaps we could have Caranthir acting in an unexpected way. A version of Faelivrin's idea could be that the Dwarves encounter Amras first, but he's not interested in trading, or any exchange at all. He could be rather rude, in fact. After that, they encounter Caranthir, and he surprisingly accepts to start trading. It's not an elegant idea, but it could work.
What would make Caranthir accept to start trading?

Also, someone should ask Telchar to create Narsil this season. Is it Curufin’s sword? There’s no point in asking later than Season 4 since the Dragon-helm is Telchar’s last project.
 

Faelivrin

Well-Known Member
We do need Narsil. I'd rather that it isn't a sword belonging to a Feanorian. I'd like it to be Aegnor's instead.

What would make Caranthir accept to start trading?
I think Haakon's suggestion is that Caranthir agrees to trade as soon as he meets the Dwarves, but he isn't the first Feanorian they meet.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
We do need Narsil. I'd rather that it isn't a sword belonging to a Feanorian. I'd like it to be Aegnor's instead.
My thought was that it was a twin of Angrist.

How would Aegnor have contact with the Dwarves of Nogrod if the Feanoreans seem to have a monopoly? I wouldn’t think that the Feanoreans would like having anyone from the House of Finarfin around.
 

Faelivrin

Well-Known Member
Finrod and Thingol will both have extensive contact with them. Most trade passes through Caranthir's hands because of his convenient location, but he doesn't have a blockade or embargo that stops Dwarves from walking into Beleriand.

The reason I don't like Narsil being Feanorian, is I would prefer Narsil not be a sword used for kinslaying at Doriath.
 
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MithLuin

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Staff member
Maedhros and Maglor do canonically spend time with Finrod (ie, go hunting with him) in the incident where Finrod meets Bëor. I don't think there is any reason to suspect the Fëanoreans of closing their lands to traffic from other Noldor.

Now, whether or not any of the Noldor (such as Aegnor) *want* to travel to the Fëanorean's territory in order to trade with the dwarves is another story entirely.

I do agree that we need to figure out where Narsil goes soonish. Let's see if it comes up today.
 

Faelivrin

Well-Known Member
Lots of Noldor (and Sindar?) also travel to Estolad to meet the Humans.

But I think the Dwarves are surely free to travel into Dorthonion to do further trade. They certainly go through Doriath and out the other side to get to Nargothrond and do lots of stuff there.

They won't visit the coast, and I imagine that they don't go to Hithlum much.
 

amysrevenge

Well-Known Member
My thought was that it was a twin of Angrist.

How would Aegnor have contact with the Dwarves of Nogrod if the Feanoreans seem to have a monopoly? I wouldn’t think that the Feanoreans would like having anyone from the House of Finarfin around.
Even with a monopoly on trade, there's still room for one-off exchanges or personal gifts for exceptional individuals. Aegnor (or anyone else prominent) could easily get his hands on one fine sword - he just couldn't have a caravan full of them for trade.
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
Right - it is worth pointing out that Curufin will wind up with Telchar's dagger Angrist, but that does not mean that Telchar and Curufin ever meet, necessarily. The nature of trade is that items pass through hands to reach their final destination.
 

amysrevenge

Well-Known Member
I've just imagined a situation where Aegnor is visiting Caranthir. Caranthir, in a gloating sort of way, brings Aegnor along to Nogrod or Belegost (I forget which makes sense). While there, Aegnor marvels over the craftsmanship, and impresses the Dwarves with his manner and with his own Noldorin knowledge of smithcraft (maybe he makes a specific recommendation about metallurgy that saves the day for a difficult project?). Caranthir boorishly demands that they give Aegnor a gift worthy of the Noldor. They give him the best sword they have, better than anything they've given to Caranthir.
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
Objection to the name Petty-dwarves as inherently and obviously racist (not a name they or their friends would use for them). So, we can still use the name 'Petty-dwarves,' but only in the mouth of a character we want to depict as despising them.

Alternatives: Exiled Dwarves, Clanless Dwarves, or Sindarin names Noegyth Nibin, or Nibin-Noeg, or Nibin-Nogrim.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
Objection to the name Petty-dwarves as inherently and obviously racist (not a name they or their friends would use for them). So, we can still use the name 'Petty-dwarves,' but only in the mouth of a character we want to depict as despising them.

Alternatives: Exiled Dwarves, Clanless Dwarves, or Sindarin names Noegyth Nibin, or Nibin-Noeg, or Nibin-Nogrim.
Maybe petty for “small/close-minded”, unwilling to accept new people or ideas, not considering the big picture?
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
On the Petty Dwarves, they’re smaller, more unsociable, and they freely give away their names in Khuzdul. So maybe my suggestion on the Petty-Dwarves being “small-minded” could work?
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
Suggested dwarf scenes from today's session:

1) Mablung meets the Petty-dwarves, and naturally assumes there is a kinship between them and the dwarves of Nogrod/Belegost. Mablung discusses his newest dwarf acquaintance with Norn, the ambassador from Belegost. Norn explains that these 'other' dwarves are exiles and no longer part of Belegost/Nogrod (he views them as scum). Mablung expresses surprise that any crime would be repaid with exile. Norn explains the crimes that warrant exile. Mablung sees the point...but is a bit put off by Norn's clear disdain for these people (who are kinsmen....) Perhaps Norn's family is a victim of murder (so he has a personal grudge against the Exiles).

This conversation is revisited after the Kinslaying is revealed, at which point Norn is like...now you understand.

2) Azaghâl's court in Belegost - we could see a dwarf being banished for his crimes as backdrop to a larger scene. This would be an opportunity for us to showcase Azaghâl's policies. He can make it clear that there will be no interaction with Morgoth or his servants, or he could exile a murderer to end the cycle of vengeance. Innocent people (children born in exile) suffer the consequences as well. Family members can choose to accompany the Exiles.

3) The Petty-dwarves, a disparate group of exiles for various crimes at various times from different Houses, find a new home in Nulukkizdîn. They hope to establish a new House, a new Clan....and then they are booted out again. The leader* makes an impassioned speech about how everything else has been taken from them, and can't they just leave them this? Norn (or whatever dwarves of Belegost are doing the evicting) would respond - no, you've forfeited all rights and not having a clan or ancestral home is part of your punishment.

*Mîm? Or simply his ancestor? Preferably, we do not have a 500 year old Mîm. We can give him a name similar-sounding to Mîm. (Nîm, Tîm, Bîm, Mîm, etc) But we should be sure to cast different actors, so it is clear that Mîm is the descendant of this guy, and that he is not a 'true' dwarf-father.
 
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