Session 4.07 - Overarching Storylines, Continued

MithLuin

MithLuin

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Session 4.06 on January 11th focused on the Dwarves, developing some of their internal politics. Session 4.07 on February 1st will continue that discussion, beginning with:
  • Dwarf/Fëanorean relationship
    • Story of how Caranthir establishes his trade relationship
    • Is there any hunting of Petty-dwarves by the Noldor? What is the outcome?
  • Eöl
  • Villain storyline (time permitting)
Probably will be covered in a later session:
  • Fall of Man
  • We really shouldn't forget about Lúthien.
Edit: Change of Date of Session
 
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Well, hunting the Petty-Dwarves will dwindle their fortunes further, since by the First Age they’re almost died out.

Noldor and Dwarves:

  • Curufin requests a knife made by Telchar that can cut iron: Angrist
  • Amongst the items made by Telchar is a sword known as Narsil; I’ve suggested that it’s made for Curufin as a twin of Narsil, while @Faelivrin has suggested Aegnor

For Eol: I’ve suggested that he’s hunting for galvorn, and this is why he’s come to Beleriand.

We really should get a grasp of the Villain storyline; we’ve been putting it off for months now.

Morgoth: Starts looking for Hildorien. When he finds Men, he makes a mistake with his Dark Lord form. Arrives back and starts working on Dragons.

Sauron: Looking for how the Noldor might have internal friction. He and Thuringwethil infiltrate the Mereth Aderthad, spreads dissent amongst the Noldor and Sindar, leading to Ban. After Ban, Gothmog releases thousands of Orcs to attack before Sauron’s say-so, leading to Dagor Aglareb. Morgoth sends him (and possibly Fankil) to finish corrupting Men (Sauron drops off-page for almost 400 years, we need something for him to do).

Gothmog: Impatient on what is going on with Morgoth, who has been absent. Deploys Orcs in F.A. 60, leading to Dagor Aglareb and disgrace. Later on in F.A. 260, he decides to let Morgoth’s new toy Glaurung loose when he gets impatient again.

Also, could we talk about what characters we need?
 
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I think we need a 'story' for how Caranthir becomes the go-to guy for dwarvish trade. He's an unlikely diplomat (to say the least!), and not someone who is likely to disguise his opinion that dwarves are short and unlovely. So...how did that happen? Obviously, geography helps, but...what more? (I know we've had a couple of suggestions already, just opening up the floor for any more ideas.)

We didn't get a chance to talk about Telchar today, so hopefully next session we'll finish up her storyline.

But as for the Villains....

We really do need to work out the catch-and-release program. If Orodreth, Rog (renamed), and (potentially) Echthelion are all going to be made captive at various points, we'll have to figure out how that impacts their storylines. And, of course, we have to decide if we want Angrod's wife Eldalotë to be one of the captives/traitors.
 
MithLuin said:
I think we need a 'story' for how Caranthir becomes the go-to guy for dwarvish trade. He's an unlikely diplomat (to say the least!), and not someone who is likely to disguise his opinion that dwarves are short and unlovely. So...how did that happen? Obviously, geography helps, but...what more? (I know we've had a couple of suggestions already, just opening up the floor for any more ideas.)

We didn't get a chance to talk about Telchar today, so hopefully next session we'll finish up her storyline.

But as for the Villains....

We really do need to work out the catch-and-release program. If Orodreth, Rog (renamed), and (potentially) Echthelion are all going to be made captive at various points, we'll have to figure out how that impacts their storylines. And, of course, we have to decide if we want Angrod's wife Eldalotë to be one of the captives/traitors.
Click to expand...
I thought Eldalote remained behind in Valinor.
 
MithLuin said:
I think we need a 'story' for how Caranthir becomes the go-to guy for dwarvish trade. He's an unlikely diplomat (to say the least!), and not someone who is likely to disguise his opinion that dwarves are short and unlovely. So...how did that happen? Obviously, geography helps, but...what more? (I know we've had a couple of suggestions already, just opening up the floor for any more ideas.)

We didn't get a chance to talk about Telchar today, so hopefully next session we'll finish up her storyline.

But as for the Villains....

We really do need to work out the catch-and-release program. If Orodreth, Rog (renamed), and (potentially) Echthelion are all going to be made captive at various points, we'll have to figure out how that impacts their storylines. And, of course, we have to decide if we want Angrod's wife Eldalotë to be one of the captives/traitors.
Click to expand...

Rog’s been suggested as being hardened by the experience, while Orodreth is possibly weakened; whenever he shows up, it doesn’t go well from Minas Tirith’s fall to Sauron and trusting Turin which led to the Fall of Nargothrond, which included the death of Orodreth and the execution of Finduilas some months later. Still, Orodreth has to be functional enough to be given command of an important strategic point.
 
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To borrow from my Aegnor vignette in the other thread, the obvious (to me) connection between Caranthir and Dwarves, beyond geographical, could easily be based in craft. We tend not to think day-to-day about our Noldor as craftsmen, but they all are, to some degree or another. Caranthir's head is probably filled with all sorts of knowledge that the Dwarves would love to have. My preference would be that Caranthir's knowledge is impractical for Dwarves (maybe it requires some Valinor-specific material or location?) but that they are entranced by the notion, whatever it is, and keep trying (and failing) to make it work n their own forges. Actually, that could tie in nicely with Aegnor coming in years later and providing the final piece of their puzzle. Holy smokes can you tell I'm a project engineer hahahahahahahahaha
 
The Noldor are really all engineers, after all :p

Ange1e4e5 said:
I thought Eldalote remained behind in Valinor.
Click to expand...

That is what Tolkien said/implied about her, but in our version, there's no reason she can't tag along and come to Middle Earth. We have very, very few named female characters among the Noldor, so it seems a shame to not use a named character Tolkien came up with. Only if we have a role/story for her, though.

Obviously, we can invent characters as necessary. Norn turned out well enough. But I think Eldalotë's existence is at least on the table at this point. If we don't use her this season (or next), then she doesn't exist/stayed in Valinor.
 
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MithLuin said:
I think we need a 'story' for how Caranthir becomes the go-to guy for dwarvish trade. He's an unlikely diplomat (to say the least!), and not someone who is likely to disguise his opinion that dwarves are short and unlovely. So...how did that happen? Obviously, geography helps, but...what more? (I know we've had a couple of suggestions already, just opening up the floor for any more ideas.)

We didn't get a chance to talk about Telchar today, so hopefully next session we'll finish up her storyline.

But as for the Villains....

We really do need to work out the catch-and-release program. If Orodreth, Rog (renamed), and (potentially) Echthelion are all going to be made captive at various points, we'll have to figure out how that impacts their storylines. And, of course, we have to decide if we want Angrod's wife Eldalotë to be one of the captives/traitors.
Click to expand...
We could have Rog escape to Hithlum, serve under Fingon, and join up with Turgon after Fingon is killed by Gothmog in the Nirnaeth Arnoediad. Would give Fingolfin and Fingon someone to talk to.
 
I could see a scenario where Caranthir meets his first dwarves. Perhaps they were 'trespassing' on the lands he's just claimed, and he goes in acting his usual rash and hot-headed self. The audience is ready for some heads to role, for this to be a new 'incident'...but instead...

He asks them (perhaps rudely or abruptly) what's in the wagons they were carting across 'his' land when they were caught. Clearly trying to appease this hot head, they open the chests willingly enough. And...total change of demeanor. Caranthir is impressed by the workmanship, and blurts that opinion out as readily as he blurts out everything else he's thinking. ('This is a good sword, Haleth son of Hama' from the Two Towers film levels of praise.)

That shapes the rest of their interaction. Caranthir is still himself - proud and undiplomatic. He says several ridiculous and insulting things. But everything he says about craftsmanship is intelligent and complimentary, because he's genuinely impressed. While some of the dwarves are outraged over their treatment (how can they be 'trespassing' if Caranthir's folk just arrived and they've been in the Blue Mountains from time immemorial?), others see an opportunity and seize it. They know Caranthir isn't going to treat them kindly. He's revealed enough of his character to make that clear. But...he knows a thing or two about their product, and he's interested, and they can certainly work with that.

...mutually beneficial trade deal ensues.

We will need a canny dwarf who can 'handle' Caranthir and not get bent out of shape by his outrageous actions. Essentially - we'll need Norn 2 here.
 
Minor derail?

I can see Noldor creating a 100% quality sword in 100% of the time, and then doing it again and again one at a time.

I can see a Dwarf creating a 75% quality sword in 5% of the time, in bulk.

Caranthir might even pooh-pooh the first Dwarf sword he sees, but then be astounded when he learns that they have 400 of them in their wagons, and can bring another 400 in a few weeks (or whatever time frame).
 
Complete derail to mention how happy I am that we now have actual time units to work with in Beleriand. The sun rose, the sun set, a day passed......
 
Otherwise all we have is "boiled an egg, it's done, five minutes passed, boil another, five more minutes" haha . Time in the First Age is measured in the Years of the Egg (have I mentioned I'm working 12 hour days and am sort of loopy right now hahahaha)
 
amysrevenge said:
Minor derail?

I can see Noldor creating a 100% quality sword in 100% of the time, and then doing it again and again one at a time.

I can see a Dwarf creating a 75% quality sword in 5% of the time, in bulk.

Caranthir might even pooh-pooh the first Dwarf sword he sees, but then be astounded when he learns that they have 400 of them in their wagons, and can bring another 400 in a few weeks (or whatever time frame).
Click to expand...
But what’s in the 25% lost quality?
 
MithLuin said:
Session 4.06 on January 11th focused on the Dwarves, developing some of their internal politics. Session 4.07 on January 25th will continue that discussion, beginning with:
  • Dwarf/Fëanorean relationship
    • Story of how Caranthir establishes his trade relationship
    • Is there any hunting of Petty-dwarves by the Noldor? What is the outcome?
  • Eöl
  • Villain storyline (time permitting)
Probably will be covered in a later session:
  • Fall of Man
  • We really shouldn't forget about Lúthien.
Click to expand...
Also, there is a definite question about whether or not we should talk about the Fall of Man at all. Should we? Or stick with what the original book uses, with Beor telling Finrod that there is a shadow behind them that they will not speak of. Besides, Finrod would know the story already with being able to read Beor’s mind.
 
Ranked in order of how long you have to wait to listen, from shortest wait to longest wait:

1) Live on GoToWebinar or Twitch

2) Replay on Twitch, which you can start up the instant the stream stops. This is what I do. I could *almost* listen live while at work, but I need to be able to pause and deal with stuff. So I fire it up and listen/watch as soon as it ends, pausing when I have to. This is not archived forever, just for a few weeks (months?).

3) YouTube copies of the session go up some time in the week or two following. These stay up forever.

4) The podcast feed gets updated much later, often measured in weeks or even a month plus.
 
Villains plotline: Most spies will go to Mithrim/Hithlum and the Eastern parts where the Feanoreans are. No sense having them go to Nargothrond where Finrod can read minds or Gondolin, which doesn’t have a serious security breach until F.A. 502.
 
Is this mind reading power of Finrod's really that good? I find that the more we discuss it, the more problematic this appears to me. It can't be something that works without a fault all of the time, and something there's no way to avoid or nothing to use to counter it. It get that he's powerful, but it raises some questions. Why does he live so far away from the enemy? Closer to Angband he could be of better use, right? How does it work, exactly? Is it easy, or does it cost him? What does the information look like, the things he 'reads' in people's minds? Does it contain words, pictures, feelings, desires - what? I'm sorry if we've been through this and it hasn't stuck in my thick head... From the texts that I have read, I find it to be very unclear. It seems that one can interpret it to mean that Finrod can read the minds of Men specifically, which would mean that he does not necessarily have the power to read the minds of elves. If that's the case, things are much less problematic.
 
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