Session 4.13 - First 'Creative Content' Session for Season 4

Discussion in 'Episode Questions' started by MithLuin, Apr 5, 2019.

  1. MithLuin

    MithLuin Well-Known Member

    Last edited: Apr 12, 2019
  2. amysrevenge

    amysrevenge Well-Known Member

    On that matter, I guess you could consider me to be on "Team Stump". But I could be convinced by a good argument. Haha
  3. MithLuin

    MithLuin Well-Known Member

    Visually, I agree. Practically, though...I have trouble imagining that all these clever Noldor didn't rig up some sort of work around for him. Like...'we are too polite to acknowledge that missing limb' seems a weird direction to take their culture at this point!
  4. Ange1e4e5

    Ange1e4e5 Well-Known Member

    I think it’s generally accepted that Maedhros did not have some sort of prosthetic to place at the end of his arm, it would have been mentioned. Most fan art depicts him without one, such as the Jenny Dolfen drawings.

    To diverge slightly into swords, I think Maedhros will be wielding a lighter weapon, something that he doesn’t need two hands for.
  5. Nicholas Palazzo

    Nicholas Palazzo Well-Known Member

    My thinking is based on Maedhros' generally pragmatic nature. Thus far, his training is based on spear and shield or sword and shield combat. Sure, switching hands makes him useless in a shield wall, but he would still want to use his right hand to effectively protect himself. Fighting with a one-handed sword alone forces you to adopt a stance more akin to dueling. This works fine in one-on-one fighting where you know where your enemy is, but it leaves you vulnerable to attack in a lot of ways. It also reduces your ability to effectively push forward, or to charge.

    This is why I have been advocating for at least something to keep a shield from slipping off. This could even be accomplished by an elaborate harness, but I think the engineering required for that would be more useful in fashioning a nominally functional prosthesis.

    Since we have thus far shown the Feanorians wielding something akin to a spatha, I'm not sure we would need something lighter than that. Even an arming sword or a rapier which are both much heavier are wielded just fine with one hand.
  6. MithLuin

    MithLuin Well-Known Member

    Another topic that it might be interesting to raise next week is how we intend to show that Sindarin and Quenya are two different languages.

    Obviously, up until this point, apart from the names and occasional word, everything has been in 'English'. So, when we've shown the Sindar, they've been speaking 'English', and when we've shown the Noldor, they've been speaking 'English.' Now, we want to have a moment where they meet each other for the first time after a long separation, and....they don't understand one another. So how do we convey that language barrier on screen, and teach the audience that there are two different Elvish languages?

    The suggestion we've had so far is that when we show a scene from the Sindar perspective, they speak 'English' amongst themselves, but the Noldor they meet are speaking Quenya. And then, when we show another scene from the Noldor perspective, they are speaking 'English' amongst themselves, but the Sindar are speaking Sindarin. We would rely on changing camera angles and a strong emphasis on a point of view character to make sure the audience follows what is going on. Once everyone understands one another, it will gradually shift back to English.

    'English' here is English, and then when dubbed into another language would be whatever that language is. The Sindarin and Quenya would be the same no matter what language the show was dubbed into. Except for our extra special hardcore edition, where everything is in Valarin/Sindarin/Quenya/Nandorin/etc with subtitles :p

    Any other suggestions on how to show that the Sindar and Noldor don't speak the same language?
    Ange1e4e5 and Nicholas Palazzo like this.
  7. Haerangil

    Haerangil Well-Known Member

    Like they did in vikings? With the Franks and the norse? Maybe...

    Ok... tbis is norse vs saxons, but still..
    Ange1e4e5 likes this.
  8. Nicholas Palazzo

    Nicholas Palazzo Well-Known Member

    Yeah, I think that is precisely how we do that.
  9. MithLuin

    MithLuin Well-Known Member

    Okay, that is a very good suggestion, but it's a different idea.

    In these examples, both people speak their own languages, with English subtitles. Even if the viewer can't tell the difference between Old Norse and AngloSaxon (I'm guessing?), they can easily figure out which characters understand one another and which characters do not. And the audience is let in on the 'private' conversations via subtitles.

    I think that is a common enough way to do it. I haven't watched that show, so I don't know if there are other scenes where these characters speak in English. I assume there are? And the audience just accepts that they're switching into Old Norse now because they are around people who don't understand them?

    I ask, because this is commonly done with one language that is 'always' foreign. Game of Thrones' Valerian, for example, is always spoken as itself, and characters switch to English when they stop speaking it. Same with the Grounders language in The 100.

    In this scene, everyone who is speaking English has a language in common. When they switch to subtitled 'Grounder' (a pidgin of English, essentially), that means they are speaking their own language. No one ever speaks English on screen while they are supposed to be speaking Grounder.

    What we're requesting here is the opportunity to 'switch' into the languages if there are people present who might not understand. So, Sindarin and Quenya both appear in a scene with speakers of both, and then it's all English if everyone present understands the language of the speaker. Right?

    Our situation is that we've had both languages represented as English to this point, and will open the Season with the Noldor speaking English to one another.

    So, I am fine with the very next scene being one where the Sindar approach the Camp of Fingolfin and speak Sindarin (with subtitles) and the Noldor answer them with Quenya (with subtitles), but that is a little different than the idea that the Sindar approach speaking English amongst themselves, and then are brought up short by the Noldor responding to them in Quenya. I'll make sure we suggest both variations to the Hosts.
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2019 at 10:10 PM
  10. Nicholas Palazzo

    Nicholas Palazzo Well-Known Member

    The show in question actually has examples of both variations. It works pretty well.
    Haerangil likes this.
  11. Haerangil

    Haerangil Well-Known Member

    Yes, both factions speak english when among themselves and then it switches into norse/saxon/old frankish when there are other factions present which are supposed to not understand the others... but the general show is in english.
    MithLuin likes this.
  12. Ange1e4e5

    Ange1e4e5 Well-Known Member

    And then there's what happens when we encounter Men for the first time...

    That's going to be interesting regarding who says what.
  13. MithLuin

    MithLuin Well-Known Member

    Right - I would hope we would use the meeting of the Sindar and the Noldor to set up what we will need for the meeting with Men next season.
  14. MithLuin

    MithLuin Well-Known Member

    So apparently that was today! Today's session focused on the Frame and the Casting questions in the Frame. I don't want to ignore other topics, though, so with your input, I'd like to select the 'creative' topics that should begin the next session.

    Potential list of topics:

    1) Commissions
    • Music
    • Art
    • Maps
    2) Challenges
    • Quenya/Sindarin language barrier
    • Sun/Moon in Beleriand
    3) Questions
    • How big is Thorondor?
    • Does Maedhros use a prosthesis?

    We don't need to have all of these, but I certainly want to get the commissions in as soon as possible rather than waiting until the next creative session (May 17th?) Any input?
  15. Ange1e4e5

    Ange1e4e5 Well-Known Member

    1. Music: A leitmotif for the Spell of Bottomless Dread?

    3. Does Maedhros use a prosthesis? I would presume that he does not, since it would have been mentioned. I would assume that if we have a prosthesis, it would not be dextrous enough that he could use a sword, so he would have to learn to use his left hand? I don't think we need too many scenes of Maedhros trying to do things with his missing hand.
  16. MithLuin

    MithLuin Well-Known Member

    The question is which of these topics do we want to ask the Hosts about next Session (4-14), or which ones should we save for 4-15 or skip altogether?
  17. Haakon

    Haakon Administrator Staff Member

    I think we should deal with the 2) issues next episode, but perhaps the rest can wait?
    MithLuin likes this.
  18. Ange1e4e5

    Ange1e4e5 Well-Known Member

    What are the questions regarding the Sun and Moon in Beleriand?
  19. MithLuin

    MithLuin Well-Known Member

    Anything different about the appearance of Beleriand now that the Sun is risen? We don't have the Sleep of Yavanna, but...should we be showing anything in particular?

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