Session 4-21: Episodes 10 (& 11)

Haakon

Administrator
Staff member
Thank you for your patience!
2182

This thread is now open again.

I would like to stress a few things:

It is important to understand that this is a collaborative project, which means that sometimes things aren't going to go the way you want or even the way you expect. Most of you know this, most of the time. It's ok to sometimes forget about it - someone will remind you. Not accepting it won't really work.

It is ok to mourn a decision that went in a way that disappointed you. It is not ok to repeatedly insult members of this project as foolish or ignorant.

...Let me expand on this for a bit: There is sometimes a slight tendency to imagine a "us vs. them" situation, where we, the forum people, are in conflict with the execs, who do not understand us, or don't care about what we think or how we feel. It is perhaps a natural tendency caused by the special circumstances forming our communication (lack of direct contact, the terms "executives" etc.) but one that we have to be careful of. The execs do decide things, and now and again there will be times when we won't like the decisions made. We all agree that it is more than ok to have a difference of opinion. This has to be a forum for many voices. But sometimes, it seems, some of us forget that we came here because Corey had this idea, and we're here because he, Trish and Dave host the sessions once every two weeks. The truth is, the fact that this is a collaborative project means that the execs and the forum people are part of the same group, each and everyone working together. The perspectives are sometimes different, and the podcast hosts have the final say about things, but we are striving towards the same goal. And since the execs are part of the group, the rules of conduct also apply to how we talk about them. So, remember that you want to be nice to everyone involved - execs, old members, newcomers, and be nice when you talk about them.

Please take a look at the rules of conduct if you feel you might have forgotten them:
https://forums.signumuniversity.org/index.php?threads/rules-of-conduct.2582/

So, let's get back to silmfilming!

2181
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
Good to hear.

Looking at the Gantt Chart, it has "Role of Celeborn's sister the Green Elf" for Episode 11. What do we want her to do?

Also, looking forward, do we want her to have a role in Season 5 as the Green Elf who tells Finrod that the Green Elves don't want Men around?
 

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
Good to hear.

Looking at the Gantt Chart, it has "Role of Celeborn's sister the Green Elf" for Episode 11. What do we want her to do?

Also, looking forward, do we want her to have a role in Season 5 as the Green Elf who tells Finrod that the Green Elves don't want Men around?
I would say that her role might be concern about Celeborn's engagement when it becomes public. As far as Season 5, I'm not sure I'm ready to get there yet.

I do think that E11 is going to be a tough nut to crack. The plot that I think is going to loom the largest is concerning Nargothrond and the eviction of the petty dwarves. But if we have a concurrent plot with Thingol becoming upset at Celeborn's engagement to Galadriel, how does that interact with the Nargothrond storyline?
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
I would say that her role might be concern about Celeborn's engagement when it becomes public. As far as Season 5, I'm not sure I'm ready to get there yet.

I do think that E11 is going to be a tough nut to crack. The plot that I think is going to loom the largest is concerning Nargothrond and the eviction of the petty dwarves. But if we have a concurrent plot with Thingol becoming upset at Celeborn's engagement to Galadriel, how does that interact with the Nargothrond storyline?
Haven't the Petty-Dwarves already been evicted? I thought we kinda wanted to leave that part out or not have Finrod evict them.

As far as Thingol becoming upset at Celeborn's engagement to Galadriel, that might hamper Nargothrond's construction, especially when Thingol finds out that Celeborn knew of the Kinslaying and didn't tell anyone. Perhaps Thingol agrees to help if Finrod keeps the Ban?
 

Rhiannon

Well-Known Member
Maybe Thingol feels more betrayed than angry at Celeborn for not telling him about the Kinslaying. He could warn Finrod to beware treachery from his closest advisors.
 

amysrevenge

Well-Known Member
I was thinking that Thingol's reaction to Celeborn would be short but intense, and then quickly wane. Like, almost to drawn sword in the instant, but then back to trusted advisor within a day or two. Thingol is no dummy (yet) and sober reflection will quell his rage at Celeborn.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
I was thinking that Thingol's reaction to Celeborn would be short but intense, and then quickly wane. Like, almost to drawn sword in the instant, but then back to trusted advisor within a day or two. Thingol is no dummy (yet) and sober reflection will quell his rage at Celeborn.
I thought that Thingol did punish Celeborn in some fashion, since he and Galadriel have very little impact or participation for the rest of the First Age, except that Galadriel is present when Melian states that someone of Beor's house will enter Doriath despite the Girdle.
 

amysrevenge

Well-Known Member
Lots of people fall out of the narrative as the book goes on. But C&G are going to write themselves out of the main narrative when they take off east at some point here not too far ahead.
 

Rhiannon

Well-Known Member
Maybe Thingol does not do anything explicit to punish Celeborn, but his attitude towards him changes, and that is part of what eventually drives Galadriel and Celeborn away.
 

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
Haven't the Petty-Dwarves already been evicted? I thought we kinda wanted to leave that part out or not have Finrod evict them.
Not from Nargothrond they haven't. The way that Finrod will be insulated is that the dwarves evict the petty-dwarves without his knowledge or consent.
 

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
I was thinking that Thingol's reaction to Celeborn would be short but intense, and then quickly wane. Like, almost to drawn sword in the instant, but then back to trusted advisor within a day or two. Thingol is no dummy (yet) and sober reflection will quell his rage at Celeborn.
I'm less concerned with real time than I am with screen time, because if this conflict takes place over a single scene, it would be in the last few minutes. The question that raises is what that plotline's story would be for the rest of the episode.
 

Rhiannon

Well-Known Member
I'm less concerned with real time than I am with screen time, because if this conflict takes place over a single scene, it would be in the last few minutes. The question that raises is what that plotline's story would be for the rest of the episode.
Maybe Finrod's visit to Doriath, Thingol's advice about where to build Nargothrond, and Thingol learning that Celeborn knew about the kinslaying could happen early in the episode, and the rest of the episode would be about Nargothrond being built and the Noldor and Sindar coming to live there. This could culminate in Nargothrond being fully built in time for Galadriel and Celeborn to have their wedding there.
 

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
Maybe Finrod's visit to Doriath, Thingol's advice about where to build Nargothrond, and Thingol learning that Celeborn knew about the kinslaying could happen early in the episode, and the rest of the episode would be about Nargothrond being built and the Noldor and Sindar coming to live there. This could culminate in Nargothrond being fully built in time for Galadriel and Celeborn to have their wedding there.
What is the conflict that is being resolved by that climax?
 

Rhiannon

Well-Known Member
I was talking about episode 11 and proposing moving the wedding of Celeborn and Galadriel up an episode. The conflicts could be Noldor and Sindar not getting along super well in Nargothrond at first and the tension between Celeborn and Thingol in Doriath. These could both be resolved by the wedding because it would demonstrate the reconciliation of the Noldor and Sindar, and Celeborn leaving Doriath for a time would allow Thingol to calm down.
 

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
I was talking about episode 11 and proposing moving the wedding of Celeborn and Galadriel up an episode. The conflicts could be Noldor and Sindar not getting along super well in Nargothrond at first and the tension between Celeborn and Thingol in Doriath. These could both be resolved by the wedding because it would demonstrate the reconciliation of the Noldor and Sindar, and Celeborn leaving Doriath for a time would allow Thingol to calm down.

The only difficulty with this is that we kind of rush through the eviction of the Petty dwarves.
 
Top