Session 4-23: Episodes 11 and 12

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
Session 4-23 will be held on Thursday September 12th at 10 PM Eastern Time.

We will focus on discussing Episodes 11 and 12. Perhaps we will touch on the passage of time and depicting the peace of the Siege as well.

GANTT chart for reference:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QZ0PrqCvWz5jy8pWZBj3TpG3Bnt1hPqHBaGL17TB0Y8/edit#gid=1115838130

In Episode 11, Finrod goes to Doriath and asks Thingol for help making his own Menegroth. Thingol is conflicted - he wants to help his brother's grandson, but also...the KINSLAYING stands between them. Also at this time, Thingol discovers that Celeborn knew about the Kinslaying and did not tell Thingol. Celeborn and Galadriel get engaged. Galathil (or some variation of that name) shows up? Turgon is led to find Tumladen by Ulmo.

In Episode 12, Thingol introduces Finrod to Norn, who makes arrangements for Finrod to use the caves by the River Narog. Norn evicts the Petty-dwarves (the Exiled, Houseless Dwarves). Mablung and Norn have a final conversation, a follow-up of Norn's story in Episode 2. The construction of Nargothrond. Gondolin is under construction, and Aredhel makes the decision to go with Turgon to his new secret city. To lead up to that decision, she makes a 'farewell tour' of Beleriand. The 'escape' of Rog and Annael? (Could be in episode 13 instead)
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
I’ve expressed interest to a scene with Rog (or Rhogrin’s) escape with him at the forefront, hacking his way through Orcs. Is this a good or bad idea?

Somewhat like this.
 

Rhiannon

Well-Known Member
I’ve expressed interest to a scene with Rog (or Rhogrin’s) escape with him at the forefront, hacking his way through Orcs. Is this a good or bad idea?

Somewhat like this.
I think that could definitely work. Maybe while Rhogrin is doing this, Annael steps out of a side corridor and falls in behind him. I would also like to see Rhogrin and the Elves he escapes with encounter one or more Balrogs while in Angband to set up their hatred of Balrogs for the Fall of Gondolin.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
I think that could definitely work. Maybe while Rhogrin is doing this, Annael steps out of a side corridor and falls in behind him. I would also like to see Rhogrin and the Elves he escapes with encounter one or more Balrogs while in Angband to set up their hatred of Balrogs for the Fall of Gondolin.
Perhaps one of the escapees distracts the Balrogs so the rest can escape... Penlod’s brother?
 

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
I’ve expressed interest to a scene with Rog (or Rhogrin’s) escape with him at the forefront, hacking his way through Orcs. Is this a good or bad idea?

Somewhat like this.
I'm pretty sure this idea has been met with general approval. Is this something that we are doing this season, though? I was under the impression this was a Season 5 thing.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
I'm pretty sure this idea has been met with general approval. Is this something that we are doing this season, though? I was under the impression this was a Season 5 thing.
As of the Gantt chart Rhogrin’s escape has been approximately at Season 4, Episode 12 (which is where we are right now).
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
Session 4-23 will be held on Thursday September 12th at 10 PM Eastern Time.

We will focus on discussing Episodes 11 and 12. Perhaps we will touch on the passage of time and depicting the peace of the Siege as well.

GANTT chart for reference:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QZ0PrqCvWz5jy8pWZBj3TpG3Bnt1hPqHBaGL17TB0Y8/edit#gid=1115838130

In Episode 11, Finrod goes to Doriath and asks Thingol for help making his own Menegroth. Thingol is conflicted - he wants to help his brother's grandson, but also...the KINSLAYING stands between them. Also at this time, Thingol discovers that Celeborn knew about the Kinslaying and did not tell Thingol. Celeborn and Galadriel get engaged. Galathil (or some variation of that name) shows up? Turgon is led to find Tumladen by Ulmo.

In Episode 12, Thingol introduces Finrod to Norn, who makes arrangements for Finrod to use the caves by the River Narog. Norn evicts the Petty-dwarves (the Exiled, Houseless Dwarves). Mablung and Norn have a final conversation, a follow-up of Norn's story in Episode 2. The construction of Nargothrond. Gondolin is under construction, and Aredhel makes the decision to go with Turgon to his new secret city. To lead up to that decision, she makes a 'farewell tour' of Beleriand. The 'escape' of Rog and Annael? (Could be in episode 13 instead)
Are we pushing Galadriel and Celeborn’s wedding to the season finale?
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
Ah. I was under the impression that some of that had changed when Annael's capture was put off until next season
Do any of us know what form of espionage Annael will be doing?

Also, this is a question that I’ve been grappling with ever since we decided to have Annael captured and used as a tool of the Enemy, but how would he be able to form his community? Most Elves would not want to go near him with a 39.5-foot pole because he might be used as a set of eyes for the Enemy.
 

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
Do any of us know what form of espionage Annael will be doing?

Also, this is a question that I’ve been grappling with ever since we decided to have Annael captured and used as a tool of the Enemy, but how would he be able to form his community? Most Elves would not want to go near him with a 39.5-foot pole because he might be used as a set of eyes for the Enemy.
It seems to me that he will go off into self-imposed exile and some refugee elves will coagulate around him following the breaking of the Siege.
 

Haakon

Administrator
Staff member
Maybe a few won’t be afraid to be with him and leave any ten foot poles behind. It’s not often everyone makes the exact same decision.
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
Is this something that we are doing this season, though? I was under the impression this was a Season 5 thing.
Annael's spying/unwitting treachery is a Season 5 thing, and certainly his escape could happen in Season 5 as well.

But there was also a suggestion that Rog would escape in time/in an attempt to warn the Noldor about Glaurung, which would be a this season thing.

If we don't want to connect Rhogrin's escape to Glaurung's surprise appearance in the Season finale, then we can push it all back to Season 5.
 

Rhiannon

Well-Known Member
We've shown Annael with his family in Episode 4. Is there anything else we want to do with him this season to set up what he will do next season?
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
I'm pretty sure this idea has been met with general approval. Is this something that we are doing this season, though? I was under the impression this was a Season 5 thing.
First I've heard of approval for that scene.

Is there any fallout over the Ban on Quenya and Jewels? If Quenya is stronger than Sindarin, have the Elves shot themselves in the foot and some spells are not as powerful since they're not in Quenya? To paraphrase, is it the steel (the language) or the hand that wields it (the person/being who invokes the language)?
 
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