Session 4-29: Script Review Part 5

When should Angrod die?

  • Killed by Gothmog in the Dagor Aglareb

    Votes: 6 54.5%
  • Some other way between the Dagor Aglareb and the Dagor Bragollach

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • In the Dagor Bragollach, possibly with his brother Aegnor

    Votes: 3 27.3%
  • Some time after the Dagor Bragollach, in Angband's prisons

    Votes: 2 18.2%

  • Total voters
    11
  • Poll closed .

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
Except that he destroys the Falathrim settlements. (Sauron)
Sauron has been winning this whole time, and will continue to do so with a few exceptions. He successfully demolished the Falathrim, fought off and tamed the spiders, wrecked Maedhros and his massive bodyguard, has bested Gothmog at every turn. He has thus far been the only source of Morgoth's success in Beleriand.

Next season he's going to take control of Finrod's personal fortress and nearly destroy the house of Beor. He then captures the remaining heir and executes Finrod.

The decision to keep Sauron out of the battle was expressly to keep him elevated by not saddling him with the resultant defeat.

I'm not sure I agree that you're being ignored, just disagreed with. I just think you're looking at very specific moments in our tale without considering everything that comes between.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
Sauron has been winning this whole time, and will continue to do so with a few exceptions. He successfully demolished the Falathrim, fought off and tamed the spiders, wrecked Maedhros and his massive bodyguard, has bested Gothmog at every turn. He has thus far been the only source of Morgoth's success in Beleriand.

Next season he's going to take control of Finrod's personal fortress and nearly destroy the house of Beor. He then captures the remaining heir and executes Finrod.

The decision to keep Sauron out of the battle was expressly to keep him elevated by not saddling him with the resultant defeat.

I'm not sure I agree that you're being ignored, just disagreed with. I just think you're looking at very specific moments in our tale without considering everything that comes between.
I was typing in questions and Professor Olsen didn’t seem to acknowledge them. I also brought up that voting was open early in the session and he seemed to ignore that.

Am I just underestimating Sauron's combat abilities?

If I'm doing something wrong, please tell me.
 
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Rhiannon

Well-Known Member
So, one of the reasons I was fighting so hard to have Sauron kill Edhellos was that I thought when the hosts vetoed this, they would also veto the Elves naming/learning the name of Sauron right before the forging of Narsil, which I thought worked really well. However, it seemed to me in the podcast that they wanted to keep that element but still have Gothmog kill Edhellos. What I'm not sure of now is how to reconcile the two.

The hosts suggested that Angrod and Edhellos have a conversation where she explains how Sauron deceived her by impersonating Angrod after she reveals that the Feanorians aren't coming to the battle, but I really don't see how this would work logistically or how there would be room for it in Act IV of this episode, so I would love any suggestions anyone has for how to do this.

My first thought was to have Edhellos mention Sauron and then Angrod and Aegnor seek out the Feanorians in Episode 10 to ask them what they know about Sauron.

Also, if anyone has any suggestions or feedback for Episodes 12 and 13, please let me know as soon as possible. I need to post final versions of those episodes this weekend.
 

Rhiannon

Well-Known Member
I was typing in questions and Professor Olsen didn’t seem to acknowledge them. I also brought up that voting was open early in the session and he seemed to ignore that.

Am I just underestimating Sauron's combat abilities?

If I'm doing something wrong, please tell me.
I think the problem is just that, with so many people talking on the podcast, Professor Olsen is fully engaged in conversation with us and either doesn't notice or have time to respond to your questions. It should get better after the script review sessions are done and the podcast is back to just the two or three hosts.
 

Rhiannon

Well-Known Member
Do we have solid reasoning as to why Aredhel decides to go to Gondolin?
It's a combination of factors. There's Turgon's goal of preserving the Eldar from Morgoth, her love for Idril, the hopelessness about the war she learns from Amras, and the physical appearance of Ulmo that confirms Gondolin is the will of at least one of the Valar.
 

Haakon

Administrator
Staff member
Ok so we need a moment in which Edhellos confesses to Angrod and mentions Sauron. It sounds like something that happens fast, that it comes out of her like a sudden stream of emotions and words. It doesn’t have to take much time, I think.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
Ok so we need a moment in which Edhellos confesses to Angrod and mentions Sauron. It sounds like something that happens fast, that it comes out of her like a sudden stream of emotions and words. It doesn’t have to take much time, I think.
Perhaps she's saying "Sauron" over and over again?
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
That could be part of it yeah.
How do we tie Sauron into whatever name he's referring to himself as? He isn't known as Sauron beforehand; it can't be Annatar since the Elves of Hollin know him as this, and I wouldn't recommend Mairon since he calls himself this on Numenor.
 

Rhiannon

Well-Known Member
How do we tie Sauron into whatever name he's referring to himself as? He isn't known as Sauron beforehand.
In my scripts, I've had everyone just referring to Sauron as Mairon. The only other main figure Edhellos interacts with in Angband are Tevildo and Morgoth, who both call him Mairon. Also, I assume Sauron called himself Mairon in his previous interactions with the Feanorians. Maybe if Edhellos calls him Mairon when she tells Angrod about him, that might be enough of a clue for Angrod to go talk to the Feanorians, and they could decide to call Mairon Sauron.
 

Rhiannon

Well-Known Member
Another possibility I've thought of is for Edhellos to be mortally wounded by the Balrog but not actually die at that moment. Then, after the battle, she could explain to Angrod about Sauron before she dies.
 

Haakon

Administrator
Staff member
In my scripts, I've had everyone just referring to Sauron as Mairon. The only other main figure Edhellos interacts with in Angband are Tevildo and Morgoth, who both call him Mairon. Also, I assume Sauron called himself Mairon in his previous interactions with the Feanorians. Maybe if Edhellos calls him Mairon when she tells Angrod about him, that might be enough of a clue for Angrod to go talk to the Feanorians, and they could decide to call Mairon Sauron.
Yes! Except that Gothmog has named Mairon Sauron already
 

Rhiannon

Well-Known Member
It would be weird if they come up with the same name separately
I don't think so. I think it would make it more powerful. It's been a while since I listened to the podcast for Season 1, but from what I remember, Mairon was to be confused by Gothmog teasingly calling him "the abhorred," because he did not see himself as such, but Gothmog promised that he would be.
 

Haakon

Administrator
Staff member
I think it’s a rather specific name. To me, if two people call someone by such a name in a series, it sounds connected.
 

amysrevenge

Well-Known Member
So, it ultimately comes down to language then. We have her speaking English on screen, so maybe she just says "abhorred", and we figure out some way to have "abhorred" subtitled in Sindar at some point (or vice-versa?)? Everyone is all fine with names being words with meanings in fiction, except that in English we don't really do it very often. So in spoken Sindar it would be unclear if she's calling him "sauron" or "Sauron" if you get the distinction, but when we translate it to English, it's either "abhorred" or "Sauron".
 
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