Session 4-34: Listener Contributions

Rhiannon

Well-Known Member
Suggestion: Perhaps this is where Thuringwethil is killed?
That would make sense, as there is no mention of her fighting Huan or anyone else. Maybe we could show a brief glimpse of Thuringwethil before she is crushed by a stone as she tries to flee, an undignified end. Perhaps the tower, as it crumbles, would wipe out the rest of the bad guys on the island while miraculously leaving all the prisoners unharmed.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
That would make sense, as there is no mention of her fighting Huan or anyone else. Maybe we could show a brief glimpse of Thuringwethil before she is crushed by a stone as she tries to flee, an undignified end. Perhaps the tower, as it crumbles, would wipe out the rest of the bad guys on the island while miraculously leaving all the prisoners unharmed.
Well, let's see:
Dragluin is killed by Huan right before Sauron gets his butt kicked.

I had devised a dwindling party-type scenario for taking out Sauron's entourage, plus Gorgol if we include him. Gorgol is killed first when Beren reclaims his father's ring, Tevildo is killed somewhere during Beren's four-year, one-man war in Taur-nu-Fuin before he escapes to Doriath, Dragluin is killed by Huan, Sauron is beaten by Huan and Luthien, and finally Thuringwethil would be taken down in the cleansing of Tol-en-Gaurhoth
 

Rhiannon

Well-Known Member
Well, let's see:
Dragluin is killed by Huan right before Sauron gets his butt kicked.

I had devised a dwindling party-type scenario for taking out Sauron's entourage, plus Gorgol if we include him. Gorgol is killed first when Beren reclaims his father's ring, Tevildo is killed somewhere during Beren's four-year, one-man war in Taur-nu-Fuin before he escapes to Doriath, Dragluin is killed by Huan, Sauron is beaten by Huan and Luthien, and finally Thuringwethil would be taken down in the cleansing of Tol-en-Gaurhoth
I like the idea of Sauron being without Tevildo, Draugluin, and Thuringwethil when he has to flee to Taur-nu-Fuin, so he basically has to start building up his forces from scratch. There might still be a few werewolves, vampires, or cats around, but Sauron would have to work primarily with Orcs, which he would likely loathe more than his old minions.
 

Kathrin

Active Member
That would make sense, as there is no mention of her fighting Huan or anyone else. Maybe we could show a brief glimpse of Thuringwethil before she is crushed by a stone as she tries to flee, an undignified end. Perhaps the tower, as it crumbles, would wipe out the rest of the bad guys on the island while miraculously leaving all the prisoners unharmed.

Oh I think it that's even better, Sauron & co have continued to fortify the inner fortress at least, (maybe let it slide a bit with the rest of the city) and then Luthien comes in and basically blows up the whole fortress, opens up the pits, rescues the prisoners and then around them everything crashes down, the island collapses, the river floods the pits and the lower city and flushes out all the baddies that haven't yet been crushed. And then we only need a nice way for them to get to safety.

Also wow, Beren and Luthien always seemed so far away in Silm Film terms, but now it's like... soon-ish..
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
I like the idea of Sauron being without Tevildo, Draugluin, and Thuringwethil when he has to flee to Taur-nu-Fuin, so he basically has to start building up his forces from scratch. There might still be a few werewolves, vampires, or cats around, but Sauron would have to work primarily with Orcs, which he would likely loathe more than his old minions.
Question about Taur-nu-Fuin: how come Beleg and Gwindor don't bump into him when they're pursuing the company of Orcs who took Turin?
 

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
Oh I think it that's even better, Sauron & co have continued to fortify the inner fortress at least, (maybe let it slide a bit with the rest of the city) and then Luthien comes in and basically blows up the whole fortress, opens up the pits, rescues the prisoners and then around them everything crashes down, the island collapses, the river floods the pits and the lower city and flushes out all the baddies that haven't yet been crushed. And then we only need a nice way for them to get to safety.

Also wow, Beren and Luthien always seemed so far away in Silm Film terms, but now it's like... soon-ish..
Yeah, we have a long way to go before we need to be making plans for S06.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
Oh I think it that's even better, Sauron & co have continued to fortify the inner fortress at least, (maybe let it slide a bit with the rest of the city) and then Luthien comes in and basically blows up the whole fortress, opens up the pits, rescues the prisoners and then around them everything crashes down, the island collapses, the river floods the pits and the lower city and flushes out all the baddies that haven't yet been crushed. And then we only need a nice way for them to get to safety.

Also wow, Beren and Luthien always seemed so far away in Silm Film terms, but now it's like... soon-ish..
There must be some land left, since Finrod is buried on the island.

They could try boating.

We'll need captives from Nargothrond and Doriath as part of those who are released, since the return of the captives in Nargothrond causes Orodreth to kick out Celegorm and Curufin. I've suggested that Oropher (father of Thranduil and grandfather of Legolas) is a captive who brings word of Sauron's defeat to Thingol.

Now, there must be some orcs who survive the destruction of Tol-en-Gaurhoth, since this is where Morgoth receives word of Sauron's defeat at the hands (paws) of Huan and begins to make Carcharoth into the mightiest wolf the world had seen.
 

Rhiannon

Well-Known Member
Question about Taur-nu-Fuin: how come Beleg and Gwindor don't bump into him when they're pursuing the company of Orcs who took Turin?
I don’t think he is still there. Maedhros frees Dorthonion before the Nirnaeth Arnoediad.

If Sauron is there, or if he goes away and comes back, Taur-nu-Fuin is still a big place, and Beleg and Gwindor are not there for long.
 

Rhiannon

Well-Known Member
There must be some land left, since Finrod is buried on the island.

They could try boating.

We'll need captives from Nargothrond and Doriath as part of those who are released, since the return of the captives in Nargothrond causes Orodreth to kick out Celegorm and Curufin. I've suggested that Oropher (father of Thranduil and grandfather of Legolas) is a captive who brings word of Sauron's defeat to Thingol.

Now, there must be some orcs who survive the destruction of Tol-en-Gaurhoth, since this is where Morgoth receives word of Sauron's defeat at the hands (paws) of Huan and begins to make Carcharoth into the mightiest wolf the world had seen.
The captives don’t necessarily need to be from Nargothrond. They could be Orodreth’s people who have been there since the island was taken.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
The captives don’t necessarily need to be from Nargothrond. They could be Orodreth’s people who have been there since the island was taken.
They'd have to know their way to Nargothrond, given that it's a secret city and all (until Turin shows up).
 

Rhiannon

Well-Known Member
They'd have to know their way to Nargothrond, given that it's a secret city and all (until Turin shows up ;))
Nargothrond is secret, but it is not Gondolin-level secret. Orodreth definitely knows the way, and likely many of his people do as well. Even if they don’t know exactly where the doors are, the have some idea of the general location and could go south and be found by the watchers from Nargothrond.
 

Octoburn

Active Member
Question about Taur-nu-Fuin: how come Beleg and Gwindor don't bump into him when they're pursuing the company of Orcs who took Turin?
Because Beren left Dorthonion the same year Turin was born, well before Turin, Beleg and Gwindor got there.

(Assuming you meant Beleg and Gwindor searching for Turin, which happens 20 years later)
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
Because Beren left Dorthonion the same year Turin was born, well before Turin, Beleg and Gwindor got there.

(Assuming you meant Beleg and Gwindor searching for Turin, which happens 20 years later)
Yes, I meant when Beleg and Gwindor were trying to rescue Turin. As far as I know the corruption that infests Dorthonion doesn't go away.
 

Rhiannon

Well-Known Member
Because Beren left Dorthonion the same year Turin was born, well before Turin, Beleg and Gwindor got there.

(Assuming you meant Beleg and Gwindor searching for Turin, which happens 20 years later)
I think the “him” in question was Sauron, not Beren. But, speaking of haunted forests, we will be showing both Nan Dungortheb and Nan Elmoth in Season 5. Does anyone have any ideas for the depiction of those?
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
I think the “him” in question was Sauron, not Beren. But, speaking of haunted forests, we will be showing both Nan Dungortheb and Nan Elmoth in Season 5. Does anyone have any ideas for the depiction of those?
I had an idea that Eol has some sort of telepathic?/telekinetic? control over Nan Elmoth, which would explain why it took 84 years for Aredhel to escape and how Glorfindel, Ecthelion and Egalmoth couldn't find her.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
I think the “him” in question was Sauron, not Beren. But, speaking of haunted forests, we will be showing both Nan Dungortheb and Nan Elmoth in Season 5. Does anyone have any ideas for the depiction of those?
Well I'm sure Nan Dungortheb is nothing like the forest in Snow White and the Seven Dwarves.
 

Octoburn

Active Member
I think the “him” in question was Sauron, not Beren. But, speaking of haunted forests, we will be showing both Nan Dungortheb and Nan Elmoth in Season 5. Does anyone have any ideas for the depiction of those?
My bad, I think I skipped around the comments too much and confused myself. And looking back over it, I have no clue why I assumed the He was Beren...

I had an idea that Eol has some sort of telepathic?/telekinetic? control over Nan Elmoth, which would explain why it took 84 years for Aredhel to escape and how Glorfindel, Ecthelion and Egalmoth couldn't find her.
What we'd call telekinetic/telepathic, is more likely to be some sort of spell in Middle-earth. More like a dark version of Melian's Girdle.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
What we'd call telekinetic/telepathic, is more likely to be some sort of spell in Middle-earth. More like a dark version of Melian's Girdle.
Well, in that he can control the entire forest. I'm not sure Melian's Girdle works like that.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
Nargothrond is secret, but it is not Gondolin-level secret. Orodreth definitely knows the way, and likely many of his people do as well. Even if they don’t know exactly where the doors are, the have some idea of the general location and could go south and be found by the watchers from Nargothrond.
So how come it took Morgoth so long to find it without the maximum level of security afforded to Gondolin or Doriath? It took the increasing armament of Nargothrond by Turin to reveal its location to Morgoth.
 
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