Session 5-04: The Season 5 Frame

This is probably something for our costuming department, but Gandalf will likely need different clothes for when he goes to Harad, something more suitable to the climate. He probably can't dress up in a bermuda shirt, baseball cap and sunglasses (or maybe he can).
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I don't think his usual clothes are a problem. Take a look at this old Moroccan man:
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Regarding the current political climate in Harad - it's been 3000 years since Sauron had direct control. There's been plenty of time for change to whatever we want.
 
You know, if we have the Mouth of Sauron as an antagonist, he could be from Umbar and be sent to bring the Haradrim over; as a reward for his efforts in bringing Harad over to Sauron (or simply keeping them from joining the Free Peoples) he would receive his reward and title as the Mouth of Sauron.
 
You know, if we have the Mouth of Sauron as an antagonist, he could be from Umbar and be sent to bring the Haradrim over; as a reward for his efforts in bringing Harad over to Sauron (or simply keeping them from joining the Free Peoples) he would receive his reward and title as the Mouth of Sauron.
Keep in mind how old he'll be at the Black Gate. Not a dealbreaker, but something to be aware of.
 
Keep in mind how old he'll be at the Black Gate. Not a dealbreaker, but something to be aware of.
He's supposed to be somewhat long in years (though given that he's presumably a Black Numenorean that could be not that long at all); he's been around long enough to have forgotten his own name. Also, bear in mind that Aragorn is 87-88 during the War of the Ring; he may be slightly older and he's stated to have entered the service of Barad-Dur circa this time. So the Mouth of Sauron could be a young man in the early 2950s.
 
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We will likely get the opportunity to see the court of Gondor in Minas Tirith this season - just a glimpse, a single episode frame, two 2-5 minute scenes, and that's it. Most likely, we will want to use that opportunity to establish a stark contrast with whatever is happening in Harad at this time.

So, what does Gondor's court look like?

Turgon is the aged steward. He is about 96 years old, and nothing eventful enough to wind up in the Appendices of LotR happened during his reign - so basically, it's been a long, peaceful stretch for him, likely focused on internal issues (though not much strife). His reaction to Gandalf's news (Sauron has returned! Harad is being brought to his side!) is likely to lean in the direction of...I can't really be bothered with that. He dies in TA 2953 (just after this). He is a good reason for Gandalf to say something along the lines of 'the war will not come in your lifetime, but in your son's or even grandson's.'

Ecthelion II, Turgon's son, will succeed him in a few years. He clearly *does* take Gandalf's warning to heart, and works on bolstering allegiances and foreign policy - he will later welcome Thorongil. He strengthened Gondor's defenses and prepared for war. Ecthelion is in his 60's during Gandalf's visit, and likely already responsible for much of the day to day running of Gondor as his aged father's heir. Gandalf can probably appeal to him with his responsibility as a steward.

Denethor (born TA 2930) is a young man, aged 20. We should see a lot of Faramir in him, I think, as Faramir is the one who truly took after him (despite his preference for Boromir). He should view Gandalf's warning with some skepticism - How do you know this? What were you doing in Harad, anyway? Doesn't anyone else find this a bit suspicious/convenient/alarmist? etc. He's not a villain, but he definitely does not wholeheartedly embrace Gandalf's message as a call to action. Gondor has been peaceful his whole life, but he knows history, and he's not naive.

Thengel, crown prince of Rohan, is a permanent resident of Gondor, and could easily appear at court. It will obviously be up to him to pass this news along to his father Fengel in Rohan. Although, spoiler alert, he and dad don't get along (at all), which is why he lives in Gondor with his wife and not in Rohan. He's in his late 40s at this point, and in only a couple years will be called back to Rohan to rule. So it will be up to him to respond to Gandalf's warning here. Does he? Theoden is a 2-3 year old child at this time, and will therefore likely not appear.

I imagine that the friendship of Thengel and Ecthelion should be viewed as a precursor to the friendship of Eomer and Aragorn. They both assume leadership at the deaths of their fathers at about the same time, and Rohan and Gondor seem to be getting along quite well with one another throughout their reigns. Ecthelion accepts Thorongil into his service in part because he came from Thengel's service.

Again, we're just going to get a glimpse of this court - we're not delving into all of this. Thengel is going to be the random blond dude who says something about 'my people' or 'Rohan' that makes it clear he's a foreigner. That's all. It's basically a teaser to set up 'The Adventures of Thorongil' later. But I hope that this snapshot will be a really good foil for what is going on in Harad, so wanted to put this down for reference as we come up with ideas for the situation in Harad at this time.
 
Yes, this frame is set in TA 2951, so two years before Fengel and Turgon die and hand over Rohan and Gondor to Thengel and Ecthelion.
 
Denethor (born TA 2930) is a young man, aged 20. We should see a lot of Faramir in him, I think, as Faramir is the one who truly took after him (despite his preference for Boromir). He should view Gandalf's warning with some skepticism - How do you know this? What were you doing in Harad, anyway? Doesn't anyone else find this a bit suspicious/convenient/alarmist? etc. He's not a villain, but he definitely does not wholeheartedly embrace Gandalf's message as a call to action. Gondor has been peaceful his whole life, but he knows history, and he's not naive.

I'm not sure if we've said it explicitly anywhere, but Denethor should be a pretty sweet dude up until his wife dies. That's the bit that turns him into a sour old man.
 
I'm not sure if we've said it explicitly anywhere, but Denethor should be a pretty sweet dude up until his wife dies. That's the bit that turns him into a sour old man.
Well he's going to be skeptical and resentful of Thorongil, which happens years before Finduilas dies. And his dislike of Gandalf is going to be well-cemented by the time Thorongil comes to Gondor.
 
Right - but he is definitely pre-loss-of-his-wife at this time, and thus the bitterness from that is absent from his character. In other words, who we see here is *not* who we meet in Lord of the Rings!

He can be skeptical of Gandalf and mistrustful of Thorongil without being a bitter, broken old man one inch from despair.
 
I think what we would see is a more self-confident Faramir, certain of his place in the world, not still seeking for his place. A first-born Faramir, if you will, rather than a younger brother Faramir.

A Faramir who, upon seeing someone more capable or more clever would say "but I'm the one who is the most hearty, the most cunning - it has always been so, who is this warrior of the north, or this wandering wizard, to step in front of me?" rather than "I've always been second heartiest, second most cunning - how is third place a huge step down?"
 
I think what we would see is a more self-confident Faramir, certain of his place in the world, not still seeking for his place. A first-born Faramir, if you will, rather than a younger brother Faramir.

A Faramir who, upon seeing someone more capable or more clever would say "but I'm the one who is the most hearty, the most cunning - it has always been so, who is this warrior of the north, or this wandering wizard, to step in front of me?" rather than "I've always been second heartiest, second most cunning - how is third place a huge step down?"
I've seen the younger Denethor as a possible foil to Maeglin down the line, given how Maeglin behaves towards the interloper (Thorongil).
 
Regarding the various tribes of the Haradrim, I think one of the most important questions is: 'Why do these people fight on Sauron's side later on?' Many of them of course think of Sauron as their god, but we also have to give at least one of them reasons that are relatable in some way, show the tragedy of their choice.
 
Gondor has been 'the enemy' for millennia. I think it would be very easy to establish a history of mistrust and war crimes and bitter memories that could lend themselves to a whole people wanting to lash back. Americans tend to have very short memories, and think that anything that happened 100 years ago was too long ago to matter now. But I think in most other cultures, that is not the case. 'We have to strike them before they get us' might sound reasonable in the face of Gondor's history.
 
Yes, and I think that if "We have to strike them before the get us" isn't where they already are, it's a sentiment that could be deliberately stoked pretty easily.
 
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