Session 5-09: Aegnor and Elves

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
Session 5-09 will be held on Thursday July 23rd at 10 PM Eastern Time

The session will begin by discussing the relationship between Andreth and Aegnor, and establish what their romance means for them and for the story as a whole. Then, we will move on to some of our other Noldor storylines for Season 5. Presumably, we will start with Finrod and Fingolfin.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
First question: do we want the relationship to be before or after the move to Ladros? @Nicholas Palazzo’s timeline didn’t indicate where the relationship would be.

Something for adding either Boromir or Bregor: who is there to express her feelings of disappointment over Aegnor to, aside from the Athrabeth? Bregolas and Barahir don’t seem to be the types for that; they’re soldiers, not counselors.
 
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MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
I agree that a conversation with her father or mother after the 'break up' with Aegnor would be appropriate.

Last night, both Corey and Dave expressed a strong desire to have the move to Ladros happen before the relationship with Aegnor. Their reason for this was that if we introduce Andreth as a 'love interest' for Aegnor (whom the audience has met before) that will definitely shape how they view her and where they expect her story to go. Much preferable to introduce her as the wise-woman-in-training, the leader of her people who interacts with Finrod and sees the issues inherent in their situation...and *then* have her meet Aegnor.

So, if the move to Ladros happens when Andreth is 20-22, the romance with Aegnor can be when she is 23-25.

The 'Athrabeth,' on the other hand, will not be a single conversation, but an ongoing dialogue between Finrod and Andreth over the course of her entire life.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
I agree that a conversation with her father or mother after the 'break up' with Aegnor would be appropriate.

Last night, both Corey and Dave expressed a strong desire to have the move to Ladros happen before the relationship with Aegnor. Their reason for this was that if we introduce Andreth as a 'love interest' for Aegnor (whom the audience has met before) that will definitely shape how they view her and where they expect her story to go. Much preferable to introduce her as the wise-woman-in-training, the leader of her people who interacts with Finrod and sees the issues inherent in their situation...and *then* have her meet Aegnor.

So, if the move to Ladros happens when Andreth is 20-22, the romance with Aegnor can be when she is 23-25.

The 'Athrabeth,' on the other hand, will not be a single conversation, but an ongoing dialogue between Finrod and Andreth over the course of her entire life.
So how would Andreth’s relationship with Aegnor affect her drive to lead her people?
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
It...wouldn't? She is the leader before she meets him, and she is the leader after they break things off. If you are asking if a romance can be distracting from one's other responsibilities, than sure, of course it can, but that never stops anyone.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
It...wouldn't? She is the leader before she meets him, and she is the leader after they break things off. If you are asking if a romance can be distracting from one's other responsibilities, than sure, of course it can, but that never stops anyone.
I guess what I’m asking is how the relationship would affect her, short-term or long-term, and also what she and Aegnor liked about each other.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
Outside of Andreth's compassion for her people (for Aegnor) and Aegnor's courage (for Andreth), I can't really be sure. Aegnor is probably one of the least fleshed-out of the House of Finwe; the main thing that he's notable for is the relationship with Andreth and being KIA in the Dagor Bragollach.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
On Fingolfin: the main plotlines he'd be interacting with would be:
  • The arrival of Men, and would accept Hador into his service
  • Whatever treachery we have planned for Annael since Annael would be in that area
  • The Siege of Angband. Late in the season, Fingolfin will push for a final assault against Angband which would be shouted down. Then the Dagor Bragollach occurs, breaking the Siege. Fingolfin challenges Morgoth, hoping to inspire the Valar to come (is that what we decided for why he challenges Morgoth?) and is killed. He is buried in the Encircling Mountains.
Question: Do we want him to be aware of Aredhel's death in Gondolin?
 

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
I took another look at the GANTT chart.

I think if we make Episode 2 Aredhel-centric (her departure from Gondolin, journey through Nan Dungortheb, visit to the Fëanoreans, and up to her entrance into Nan Elmoth), that will get her story off to a solid start. We can then tell all of the Nan Elmoth story (getting lost, meeting Eöl, marriage, birth of Maeglin, raising him while 'trapped', etc) over the course of the season in various episodes. Then, we will need a later episode to be focused on Aredhel, most likely Episode 11. That will be her return to Gondolin and death, setting up Maeglin in Gondolin for later. So, Episodes 2 & 11 are focused on Aredhel, and she appears in various episodes between those two.

If we do it this way, we should have plenty of room for our human-centric stories. Like so:

View attachment 3018
House of Bëor is the primary plotline of Episodes 1 and 8.
House of Bëor has significant plot stories in Episodes 3, 9, and 13.

View attachment 3019
House of Hador is the primary plotline of Episode 7.
House of Hador has significant plot stories in Episodes 6, 8, possibly 9 and 12.

View attachment 3020
House of Haleth is the primary plotline of Episode 4.
House of Haleth has significant plot stories in Episodes 5, 6, and potentially 9.


This is a proposed breakdown of the episodes, not a final one, obviously. As we move on to planning the elven storylines, though, it's important to keep in mind how much 'space' the human plotlines are already occupying. It's not a problem (yet), but we really can't put 3 very important stories all in the same episode and expect to tell them well. Questions such as whether Haleth settling in Brethil happens before or after the Council can certainly be addressed. Mostly I just want to make sure we have space for it to happen somewhere.
In preparation for telling Aredhel's story, let's not forget that nearly none of the setup for Eol has been done at this point. There is a lot of groundwork that needs to be laid that we have put off now for two seasons. Let's not leave that undone.
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
We also did want to show Fingolfin having a vision, which he interprets as an indication of the Valar's role in conquering Morgoth and his part in that.
 

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
We also did want to show Fingolfin having a vision, which he interprets as an indication of the Valar's role in conquering Morgoth and his part in that.
I do hope we can hit that with a smaller hammer.... Perhaps he could recall Elenwë's premonition before she died, that from the House of Fingolfin would come the downfall of Morgoth. I know that this was a point of much discussion, but it seemed more like a bandaid to the perceived problem than a well-thought-out solution.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
I do hope we can hit that with a smaller hammer.... Perhaps he could recall Elenwë's premonition before she died, that from the House of Fingolfin would come the downfall of Morgoth. I know that this was a point of much discussion, but it seemed more like a bandaid to the perceived problem than a well-thought-out solution.
So would it be more in the vein of Huor saying to Turgon that "from you and me, a new star will arise"?
 

Rhiannon

Well-Known Member
In preparation for telling Aredhel's story, let's not forget that nearly none of the setup for Eol has been done at this point. There is a lot of groundwork that needs to be laid that we have put off now for two seasons. Let's not leave that undone.
What does the audience absolutely need to know about Eol before he meets Aredhel and what could be explained in flashback or through Eol's interactions with Aredhel and Maeglin?
 

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
What does the audience absolutely need to know about Eol before he meets Aredhel and what could be explained in flashback or through Eol's interactions with Aredhel and Maeglin?
Well, we're going to need flashback of any of his story at this point. We've missed the opportunity to tell it in real time. We should understand his relationship with Thingol. We should be able to connect him to the smith Telchar told Caranthir about.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
Well, we're going to need flashback of any of his story at this point. We've missed the opportunity to tell it in real time. We should understand his relationship with Thingol. We should be able to connect him to the smith Telchar told Caranthir about.
What have we told of his story?
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
There once was an elf that Telchar knew who made a spooky sword.
I thought we had the stuff about Nan Elmoth being the old haunt of Thingol and Melian.

Meanwhile, I guess my suggestion about Eol is out the window, judging from the Session that touched on Aredhel...
 

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
I thought we had the stuff about Nan Elmoth being the old haunt of Thingol and Melian.

Meanwhile, I guess my suggestion about Eol is out the window, judging from the Session that touched on Aredhel...
I mean, yes, but there has as of now been no connection made to Eol.
 
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