Yeah but as things are, they could meet when Aredhel is on her way to Gondolin. It would be kind of bittersweet, which is always good.
Session 5-15 & 5-16: Season Outline
- Thread starter MithLuin
- Start date
Rhiannon's suggestion was to reintroduce our elven and villain characters by showing them getting the news that Men have arrived in Beleriand. So, a few discrete scenes throughout the first episode of, say, Fingolfin and Fingon hearing about it, the Feanoreans, and the villains in Angband.
But I would like to call your attention to the shiny new thread in the script forum, where we can discuss episode 1 in more detail.:
But I would like to call your attention to the shiny new thread in the script forum, where we can discuss episode 1 in more detail.:
Script Discussion S05E01
We're back! The script discussion for the season 5 premiere is scheduled for October 4th @ 8:30 PM EST. We're still working out the logistics, but keep an eye on this subforum for participation instructions. Also, whether out not you intend to participate live, feel free to leave any...
forums.signumuniversity.org
I imagine that that would be tied into the Villains' reactions (in the C-plot), but I fully admit that the final two episodes are not yet well demarcated into story elements.
Ange1e4e5
Well-Known Member
In that case, perhaps Turgon burying Fingolfin and Andreth's final thoughts are the B-Plot.
Nicholas Palazzo
Well-Known Member
Those items aren't really plots so much as scenes in the denouement. The wind-down at the tail end of the season.
On a c-plot level, I think we should show how Sauron plans and strategically works towards establishing power or some control over important places in Beleriand. If he is going to be frustrated by the premature attack of Dagor Bragollach, it would be could to have him work on one or two specific ideas that aren't fulfilled at that time. We have already mentioned the attack on Minas Tirith, but I think we should have some other scheme as well. Plus, I think that it's good to establish Sauron's MO being steady, perhaps slow, strategic steps, as will be increasingly clear over the millennia - perhaps more and more as time passes, and he will be more and more careful.
Nicholas Palazzo
Well-Known Member
So I have thoughts of my own on what the season outline should look like, thoughts I have been trying to coagulate for a while now. In the interest of forwarding conversation, I’ll do it one episode at a time.
In the season premiere, we are going to have our work cut out for us with the frame. We're introducing a setting even hardcore fans will not be able to recognize on sight, and most people not even by name. None of the characters will clue the audience into where we are, and only one of them will be familiar. All of this said, my recommendation is to make the frame story the B plot of the episode rather than try to pack all of that into two short scenes.
In a similar vein, in order to simplify the first episode, I think we should consider something a bit radical by putting the focus of the A plot on the journey of the Beorians prior to their meeting with Finrod. They *willI* meet Finrod, of course, but late in the episode. This will allow Episode 2 to be about Finrod and Beor’s relationship and possibly Beor’s death if we so choose. If Beor is already pretty old, we could even have Adanel as a child in the first episode, allowing us to hear Beor passing on their cultural history to her, as she’s someone both wouldn’t know this history, but at least has the cultural context to understand it. This would also allow us to portray the first contact with elves as the climactic event we need it to be.
In the season premiere, we are going to have our work cut out for us with the frame. We're introducing a setting even hardcore fans will not be able to recognize on sight, and most people not even by name. None of the characters will clue the audience into where we are, and only one of them will be familiar. All of this said, my recommendation is to make the frame story the B plot of the episode rather than try to pack all of that into two short scenes.
In a similar vein, in order to simplify the first episode, I think we should consider something a bit radical by putting the focus of the A plot on the journey of the Beorians prior to their meeting with Finrod. They *willI* meet Finrod, of course, but late in the episode. This will allow Episode 2 to be about Finrod and Beor’s relationship and possibly Beor’s death if we so choose. If Beor is already pretty old, we could even have Adanel as a child in the first episode, allowing us to hear Beor passing on their cultural history to her, as she’s someone both wouldn’t know this history, but at least has the cultural context to understand it. This would also allow us to portray the first contact with elves as the climactic event we need it to be.
I like these ideas. We just have to be careful about Bëor's age, I think we want him to age visibly on screen (from one scene to another, not in the same scene, obviuosly), so we have to have something to work with - in other words, we can't have him be too old to start with, or we will have a harder time showing the process and make Finrod's "surprise" more believable. I mean, if Bëor comes across as really old to begin with, even Finrod will expect him to fall to the ground pretty soon. I'm sure we can find an acceptable solution.
Nicholas Palazzo
Well-Known Member
That makes perfect sense to me.
Nicholas Palazzo
Well-Known Member
We should be getting into Aredhel's story by the second episode, I think. By the end of the episode, she should have left Gondolin at the very least, though having her already lost or hunted by the end might be a better stopping point.
We should also be getting Bëor and Finrod's friendship and the move to Nargothrond, as well as the general reactions to the presence of men. The last part is a tough one, because we don't want to just have four of the same conversations with different characters. There should also be some way to tie these conversations together. Perhaps if Finrod is escorting them along the north side of Dorthonion, he can have a couple of different conversations. That wouldn't get us Thingol's perspective, but he can have his own scene.
We should also be getting Bëor and Finrod's friendship and the move to Nargothrond, as well as the general reactions to the presence of men. The last part is a tough one, because we don't want to just have four of the same conversations with different characters. There should also be some way to tie these conversations together. Perhaps if Finrod is escorting them along the north side of Dorthonion, he can have a couple of different conversations. That wouldn't get us Thingol's perspective, but he can have his own scene.
Ange1e4e5
Well-Known Member
The color-coded chart on the previous page has Aredhel traveling through Nan Dungortheb to East Beleriand for Episode 2.
Perhaps Beleg just happens to be passing by in Dorthonion and watches the progress of Men through Dorthonion and that's how Thingol gets wind of things?...
Nicholas Palazzo
Well-Known Member
I think that may be a bit far for her story to go in a single episode, and as her story will be over before the end of the season, I don't believe that we should signal otherwise to the audience by starting it in the season premier.
Maybe, but I don't think we need to show a scene with Bereg doing that.
Ange1e4e5
Well-Known Member
So what point do you propose Aredhel starting at this season?
Nicholas Palazzo
Well-Known Member
Steve, to clear things up, Nick is laying out episode by episode how he thinks the season outline should unfold. Naturally, there are some differences between that and my proposed Season outline. I don't think that making a direct comparison between the two at every step is the best way to sort out what we 'should' do. To answer your question, he proposed the Frame story as the B-plot for Episode 1.
I can certainly understand wanting to wait until Episode 2 to introduce the 'Aredhel in Gondolin' plotline. That does make sense. My concern would be with the timing of Maeglin's birth, and whether or not Aredhel's story would wind up vying for screen time against some of our more complex A-plots (ie, the Council, Andreth's move to Dorthonion), but I am certainly willing to listen to how Nick intends to have this all unfold before making assumptions about what will or will not work.
I can certainly understand wanting to wait until Episode 2 to introduce the 'Aredhel in Gondolin' plotline. That does make sense. My concern would be with the timing of Maeglin's birth, and whether or not Aredhel's story would wind up vying for screen time against some of our more complex A-plots (ie, the Council, Andreth's move to Dorthonion), but I am certainly willing to listen to how Nick intends to have this all unfold before making assumptions about what will or will not work.