Session 6-01: Big Picture Questions

MithLuin

MithLuin

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Welcome to Season 6 of Silm Film! We will be discussing the big picture questions as we begin our pre-planning for Season 6.

First Session will be held on THURSDAY DECEMBER 2, 2021 at 10 PM Eastern Time. You can join the livestream on Twitch, and participate in the comments there. Or you can watch on YouTube or the other services Signum livestreams on. Asynchronous listeners may find the recording available on Twitch and YouTube, and in podcast format.

New this season: There will be no GoToWebinar session for Silm Film. Streaming only now.

So, to kick off the new season, we usually establish the scope - what stories we begin and end with, what we hope the overarching story and theme will be. Since Season 6 will be Beren and Lúthien, some of that work is already done for us! But we still have to decide how we are telling their story and what we intend to include with this season, versus leave for a later season.
 
I’m a twitch novice. Do I just search for Silmarillion Film Project at 10pm eastern? Or is there a particular link?
 
Oh, sorry! It will be on Signum U's Twitch channel. And if you wish to leave comments in the chat, you will need to sign in to a (free) Twitch account.

Ugh. I want to post the link. The forum wants to automatically display it as an embedded video (which does not work). I forget how to get around that.

Go to www dot Twitch dot TV / SignumU
 
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Really interested in have two central protagonists for much of their and being able to get stuck into goals, needs, emotionally baggage and relationship drama
 
That is... fridaynight about 4 where i live? Nevermind i'll watch it afterward, maybe for breakfast.Very thrilled for Beren and Luthien!
 
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Haerangil said:
That is... fridaynight about 4 where i live? Nevermind i'll watch it afterward, maybe for breakfast.Very thrilled for Beren and Luthien!
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Yeah, 4:00 AM Middle European Time. I am actually tempted to wake up early tonight -because it is the first one.
 
Just finished watching the first session of the new season with some thoughts for consideration, the C brothers are driven from Himlad with civilian refugees by a large army that cuts them off from their brothers they flee south eastwards and are denied entry and aid from Doriah, setting up more enmity they have for Thingol, which will bear fruit in later seasons. In an early draft of the silmarillion they have a hand in rescuing Orodreth from Tol Sirion, we could use that scenario for their entry and acceptance into Nargothrond, along with Celegorms reputation as a war leader another factor. We could also give Celebrimbor time to shine here as we have already established his friendship with Orodreth being another factor. I love the idea of Maedhros again passing up on the high kingship and the brothers reaction to it also influencing their decisions. after the failure of the Nirnaeth i then see Maedhros as a demoralised figure that is reluctantly led by his more impestous brothers against his better judgement.
 
For the Frame, I thought we had decided awhile back that the main storyline was going to be Aragorn meeting Arwen and learning of his true heritage. For an ending point, I suggest having Aragorn going into the Wild... alone. Why alone? To contrast Beren and Luthien going to Ossiriand together while Aragorn has not yet earned Elrond's blessing.


Also, @Rhiannon and I had discussed in the Concerns about Season 5 thread about having Thingol's duel with Boldog for a number of reasons.

  • Allowing us to keep the reference to Boldog when Finrod and Beren talk to Sauron. I really like the way this exchange plays out in "The Lay of Leithian," and I would prefer to keep as much as possible.
  • Demonstrating the strength of Doriath. Dorthonion has fallen. Most of the Feanorian lands have been taken. Sauron is in command of Minas Tirith. Now, Morgoth's forces have reached the marches of Doriath, and there is no reason to think this attack would be doomed. Melian's magic may be able to keep evil forces out of the land surrounded by the Girdle, but there is clearly land outside it that the Sindar feel necessary to protect; otherwise, Beleg and Turin wouldn't have anything to do when Turin is living in Doriath. A show of Doriath's military might would remind the viewers that the Sindar do not just rely on Melian's magic to protect them; they are also quite capable of fighting.
  • Creating a greater sense of danger for those outside the Girdle. Whether or not we keep the capture of Luthien as one of the motives of Boldog's attack, the fact that there is a large force of Orcs attacking Doriath will lend credibility to Thingol's desire to keep Luthien from following Beren and heighten the sense of danger when she does set out.
  • Giving Thingol something heroic to do. Thingol is going to be an antagonist of the Beren and Luthien story, but if all he does is sit on his throne and tell people what to do, I think there is a danger of him seeming all bark and no bite. Moreover, this battle would be a chance to show that Thingol is not a completely one-sided character, that he cares for his people's safety, and that he is not a coward who always hides behind the Girdle.
  • Giving Beleg and Mablung something to do. Beleg and Mablung help out with the Hunting of the Wolf, but that is pretty much all they currently have to do in Season 6. This attack on Doriath is a chance for them to have some more screentime.
  • Foreshadowing the impact of Thingol's death. A reminder that Thingol is an effective military leader will also help explain why Doriath falls apart after his death, and I would kind of like to include a brief scene where Thingol is about to set out and Melian warns him to be careful and cryptically hints that the power of the Girdle is tied to his life as well.
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I liked that we touched on big questions in context of the series, but I suppose the biggest big questions for me in context of just this season are Beren and Luthien themselves. Not yet started unpacking them really but I am hoping this will happen in the next episode or two. Really looking forward to digging into them.
 
Rob Harding said:
I liked that we touched on big questions in context of the series, but I suppose the biggest big questions for me in context of just this season are Beren and Luthien themselves. Not yet started unpacking them really but I am hoping this will happen in the next episode or two. Really looking forward to digging into them.
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I am a bit warried about making the story of the encounter fit to our modern sensibilities. Even in Tolkien's times it was o.k. to pursue a lady and it was o.k. for her to play hard to get - to an extent. And pursuing a fairy is a classical fairie moment. I would not like to get that ruined by our today's views on the nowadays needed clearity of consent etc.
 
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Odola said:
I am a bit warrier about making the story of the encounter fot to our modern sensibilities. Even in Tolkien's times it was o.k. to pursue a lady and it was o.k. for her to play hard to get - to an extent. And pursuing a fairy is a classical fairie moment. I would not like to get that ruined by our today's views on the nowadays needed clearity of consent etc.
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I still think it is something that has to be played well. Following a woman through a forest as she keeps running away is very open for interpretation. On the page, Tolkien doesn't flavour the interaction particularly. It's very open to interpretation. We have to make sure our visualised version isn't is all. The moment is vital to the story. It needs to be romantic and magical but also has to be make sense why these two people connect in that moment. They need to connect. Love at first sight is great in a fairy tale, but we need to establish reasons that they stay with each other for many years to come.
 
It would be interesting to tell that episode from Luthien's perspective, not Beren's. To preserve that magical "stumbling into Faerie" moment we can end the previous episode with Beren seeing her, and then that episode can center on Luthien and her life in Doriath. Leaves room for some good conversations with Daeron as well, and then the episode could conceivably end with Daeron betraying Beren to Thingol.
 
When I scripted a multi-season Beren snd Luthien pitch I formatted it so each episode swapped perspective from Beren to Luthien. The first two eps were concurrent and both ended in them converging in the woods so they were independently established with their own motivations prior to becoming united. Obviously that’s only one way of doing it but I think it is important they are established with their own individual goals prior to meeting one another
 
Rob Harding said:
When I scripted a multi-season Beren snd Luthien pitch I formatted it so each episode swapped perspective from Beren to Luthien. The first two eps were concurrent and both ended in them converging in the woods so they were independently established with their own motivations prior to becoming united. Obviously that’s only one way of doing it but I think it is important they are established with their own individual goals prior to meeting one another
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I presume you mean establishing their individual goals in this season, correct? Because Luthien has been a part of our story for three seasons already, and even Beren for several episodes.
 
I know it goes against the text, but we could go with how I've always seen it play out. I always envisioned him kind of stumbling into Doriath coming out of Nan Dungortheb, barely hanging on. He stumbles across Luthien, and basically passes out (no, not like that) because of what he endured with the spiders and whatnot. Then Luthien kind of nurses him to health secretly. I feel that the heart of B&L relationship is centered on her tending his wounds and caring for him. She does it many times over the course of the story (after being shot, after being saved from Sauron, after Carcharoth biting his hand off, etc.) and I feel it is the heart of the intimacy aspect of their story. So starting their story in a similar place could be a good start.

If she willingly starts nursing him to health, and dances for him while he watches, it's much less creepy than him being a creeper behind the bushes.
 
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Nicholas Palazzo said:
I presume you mean establishing their individual goals in this season, correct? Because Luthien has been a part of our story for three seasons already, and even Beren for several episodes.
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Yes exactly. I know they’ve appeared but. It sure either has a clear drive atm. Like a singular thing they want to achieve and a wound to overcome. Beren’s initial motivation for revenge and later his motivation to get a silmaril are obvious in some ways. Just need to make sure Luthien has equal drive and agency and her own interweaving path. Working all that out and seeing resolved through the plot points we know we have to hit is the fun stuff IMO.

I think for both of them there’s a really significant connection in that they are both the children of renowned leaders. And you have Luthien whose been living in a secluded city and Beren coming out of seclusion following the death of his father and friends. There’s things they have in common but also so much that is different. All that can create baggage and sparks and great chemistry.
 
Rob Harding said:
Yes exactly. I know they’ve appeared but. It sure either has a clear drive atm. Like a singular thing they want to achieve and a wound to overcome. Beren’s initial motivation for revenge and later his motivation to get a silmaril are obvious in some ways. Just need to make sure Luthien has equal drive and agency and her own interweaving path. Working all that out and seeing resolved through the plot points we know we have to hit is the fun stuff IMO.

I think for both of them there’s a really significant connection in that they are both the children of renowned leaders. And you have Luthien whose been living in a secluded city and Beren coming out of seclusion following the death of his father and friends. There’s things they have in common but also so much that is different. All that can create baggage and sparks and great chemistry.
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Has Beren been not lacking any female company for some time now? His House's women were separated from his men for a long time as far I do remember? He clearly has need for any female attention, beyond just simple romantic one.
 
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