I was probably influenced by lost tales in which the roof of Nienna or Fúi's halls was made of bat-wings.She was much darker in the early versions, definitely a bit proto-goth.
Ah, understood. I have found some association of Nienna/Fúi with bats once you hinted on it and I've searched for it explicitly - but there she was herself a death goddess.I was probably influenced by lost tales in which the roof of Nienna or Fúi's halls was made of bat-wings.She was much darker in the early versions, definitely a bit proto-goth.
So she would have a vendetta against Mandos and that gives her the idea to make sure the Noldorin spirits do not get there at all by inventing necromancy?Hmmn, could Thuringwethil actually be unaligned at the beginning? She is supposed to be very curious in the show. I could see her going to each Valar in turn. Trying to find out all the information and secrets she can find. And then she tries to join the Halls of Mandos and Mandos just rejects her application. Because he can tell that Thuringwethil isn't actually interested in serving in HoM. She is just trying to satisfy her own inquisitiveness .
Thuringwethil then decides to join Melkor because he says to her. "Hey, I would never set limits on your curiosity."
Just throwing that idea out there.
The issue is, Sauron has little to do with souls. He is a Maiar of Aule. If Thuringwethil is a professional with dead souls, she might have the idea that something can be done with them. That's her area of expertise then and something that she has a natural talent in. And then Sauron taking over the project from her as Morgoth took the orcs from him would be an anticipation of however much Sauron is determined not to repeat Morgoth's mistakes he is already doomed to follow his path, those mistakes included.Men's souls? Thuringwethil could be curious about the Second Children but how would she find out that that Mandos has anything to do with them? And wouldn't she already be curious by this time? This theory may have more problems than solutions.
In the session today there was talk about Thuringwethil being consumed amost by her curiousity and desire of knowledge and the discovery of secrets.True indeed. I'm good with Thuringwethil being a servant of Mandos.
Based on Lay of Leithian (lines 533-578) as found in Beren and Luthien (p 162-4), Sauron's final word to Gollum on Mount Doom (ROTK p. 246), and from Part of the Tale of Aragorn and Arwen (ROTK p. 382).How do Thuringwethil’s plans backfire? How would she react to the perceived betrayal by Sauron? Maybe she will try to break into the Tub of Evil and steal the dead elves. The Tub of Evil could be what destroys the tower. Maybe Sauron will kill her. If she is working against him, Sauron would get rid of her. He would choose the power of his Tub of Evil over Thuringwethil, despite her many years of loyal service. He would see her as a rival. It shouldn’t just be an execution.
Thuringwethil would not destroy herself at the Tub of Evil. That should either remain intact or destroy Tol Sirion. Does Thuringwethil have a body? No. Only her cloak is physical. She has empowered the cloak in some way. The cloak could potentially be buried under the rubble of the tower. Beren would also be buried under the rubble. We can work out a way for them to be accessible. Beren would not be kept next to the Tub of Evil.
Sauron may make some threat to Thuringwethil that prophesizes her death. He would feel smug about that afterwards.
What if Thuringwethil is killed by Sauron after they have both been defeated? There might be some parallel to the final meeting between Húrin and Morwen. This would preserve the cloak. Huan could go after Sauron find the cloak while Beren and Lúthien are having their reunion.
Is it too late then to posit that Thuringwethil could have been a Maia of Manwe? She has flight, she loves truth in her own twisted way, she hears and sees more than others (like Manwe standing beside Varda).Oh, I have a little addendum on Thuringwethil…since she's a corrupted maia of Mandos as mentioned before,