Session 6-08: Beren and Lúthien Part 2

Rob Harding said:
Just throwing this out there, I once pitched an idea of Sauron (after this defeat) fleeing east and finding a small human settlement and, weakened, being cared for by the people there until he helps them in some small way and reveals a level of power to a select few who then see him as this sort of mysterious magic man. It could become a sort of tentative redemption arc as he explores whether he has the capacity for good and acts as the village shaman and seemingly comes to care for some of them even. Particularly interesting after we’ve seen how hubris has cost him loyal friendships this season. Would make season he’d be questioning all his recent choices. But even as he flirts with the idea of ‘benefiting’ these simple savages, he can’t help but sow decent as he introduces new ways of thinking. Perhaps he urges them to strike out at a neighbouring tribe who pillages them regularly. He encourages them to defend themselves or something, causing a divide between the downtrodden youth who feel the stoic but wise elders are pushovers. Or something with that dynamic that makes his deeds seem plausibly genuine but still murky. Slowly you see Sauron rising in small power. Even his good deeds are corrupted by hubris. It’d be the story of him killing the last dregs of Marion. Perhaps part of why he is away so long from the main narrative is that he truly contemplates a new way of loving. And it’s tragically doomed by his own nature. Anyway, the reason I raise that here is what if Daeron also travels east and becomes part of that story. He may see this as a chance at redemption. As Sauron toys with reclaiming a better self, how would Daeron react. How much would he know of and even recognise this as Sauron? If he did, what would his reaction be? Would he be roped in, hoping that if even Sauron can have a second chance then surely he can? Or would this be a chance to prove his worth and expose him? If he can never know true love, maybe he can have true purpose? Are his actions what cause Sauron to react with volatile force and unearth that old fire? Dunno, just seems like we have to people who depart this story and wander. One never to be heard from again and one emerging much later. Is it implausible their paths crossed. I think that would frankly be a really cool side plot for next season. We can leaved Daeron as wandering away at the end of 6 and the audience can be invited for forget about him until he intersects with ‘hobo druid Sauron’ in 7.
Click to expand...

Bur Daeron never saw Sauron so how can he recognise him?
 
Odola said:
Bur Daeron never saw Sauron so how can he recognise him?
Click to expand...

Well yes, that very small nuance I did raise but it hardly seems a deal breaker to the scenario. Him uncovering the identity of this charismatic figure, maybe even falling under his charms before putting pieces together could form part of that narrative. Just throwing it out as a valid reason to continue Daeron’s story. If he is to stay, it needs to be for a purpose.
 
Both Daeron and Sauron were at the Mereth Aderthad, though Sauron was in disguise and did not get caught. Sauron's ability to shift shape means that recognizing him is very difficult, even if one has met him before. But recognizing that he is causing problems is much more straight forward.


Here's the possibilities I've seen suggested for Daeron so far - let me know if I missed one!

  • Daeron goes off in search of Lúthien, but gets eaten by a spider in Nan Dungortheb.
  • Daeron goes off in search of Lúthien, and winds up crossing the mountains to the east, perhaps playing a role in the Sauron/Easterling story in Season 7.
  • Whether or not Daeron joins the search for Lúthien mid-season, he returns to Doriath. From there, his story can be:
  1. Write the Lay of Leithian.
  2. Follow Beren and Lúthien to Ossiriand, and become a mentor to Dior (instrumental in his return to Doriath).
  3. Die in the Second Kinslaying, perhaps trying to protect Dior's family.
 
MithLuin said:
2. Follows Beren and Lúthien to Ossiriand, and becomes a mentor to Dior (instrumental in his return to Doriath).
Click to expand...

Version2b. He recluses himself for several decades for some "me-time" after "failing to find Luthien" or her marriage to Beren and appears again to help Dior pick up the pieces after Thingol's death in Doriath.
 
Last edited:
I think Daeron can compose the Lay AND die in the 2nd Kinslaying. I’m thinking of how Turin was the one to compose a song for Beleg as a kind of redemption. I think Daeron’s music making could parallel this.
 
Nicholas Palazzo said:
Hang on... is there a reason he can't be the one to smuggle Elwing out during the 2nd Kinslaying?
Click to expand...
Ooooh, I like that! If we have him in Ossiriand with Dior (which I like), and he becomes the one to smuggle Elwing out, and down the line he can die in the Third Kinslaying (maybe protecting Elwing so she can do the diving into the water thing?) then he's now become a mentor or friend to every member of the House of Luthien for three generations. If he's friends with Elwing he can also then meet Elrond and Elros as children (they already have foster-fathers so he wouldn't take that role obviously but he could be there while they're young).
 
kanji_d said:
Ooooh, I like that! If we have him in Ossiriand with Dior (which I like), and he becomes the one to smuggle Elwing out, and down the line he can die in the Third Kinslaying (maybe protecting Elwing so she can do the diving into the water thing?) then he's now become a mentor or friend to every member of the House of Luthien for three generations. If he's friends with Elwing he can also then meet Elrond and Elros as children (they already have foster-fathers so he wouldn't take that role obviously but he could be there while they're young).
Click to expand...

Would Daeron be fine with seeing Maglor and not killing him?
 
Daeron and Maglor met at Galadriel's wedding in Nargothrond at the end of Season 4, and were cordial then. Daeron is not a fighter. Maglor, on the other hand, is a veteran of many battles. So, uhhh, I don't think Daeron can easily take on Maglor.
 
MithLuin said:
Daeron and Maglor met at Galadriel's wedding in Nargothrond at the end of Season 4, and were cordial then. Daeron is not a fighter. Maglor, on the other hand, is a veteran of many battles. So, uhhh, I don't think Daeron can easily take on Maglor.
Click to expand...

Still Daeron seeing Maglor taking care of Elwing's sons would not end peacefully, not after the two kinslayings he would have witnessed had he lived so long.

(And Daeron's not being a fighter makes it even more unlikely for him to avoid being eaten by a spider or making it on his own when going fey on a wartorn continent.)
 
Odola said:
Still Daeron seeing Maglor taking care of Elwing's sons would not end peacefully, not after the two kinslayings he would have witnessed had he lived so long.

(And Daeron's not being a fighter makes it even more unlikely for him to avoid being eaten by a spider or making it on his own when going fey on a wartorn continent.)
Click to expand...
On Daeron's anti-spider abilities, I'd refer you to season 3 when the spiders were first introduced to Doriath.
 
I’ve been used to thinking of Daeron as a jealous jilted lover but this discussion has me rethinking this altogether. I can now see him as a genuine good guy who wanted the best for Luthien. After all, having your best friend suddently fall in love with what must come across as such a totally inappropriate person would certainly set alarm bells going for a genuine friend. The good citizens of Doriath have near zero experience of mortals and probably look at them as aliens. They don’t have to be ‘racists’ as such, but for Luthien to fall in love when she has not yet done so in her years of life (anyone game to calculate her age using the tables in NoME?), as a friend Daeron must surely be concerned, which is why he dobs on her to Thingol and why he goes looking for her.

As for his attitude to Maglor - Maglor will have his own tortured demons to face, which is why he adopts Elrond and Elros. I think Daeron may be wise enough to see this for what it is. Daeron can still be a casualty of either Kinslaying.
 
Ilana Mushin said:
I’ve been used to thinking of Daeron as a jealous jilted lover but this discussion has me rethinking this altogether. I can now see him as a genuine good guy who wanted the best for Luthien. After all, having your best friend suddently fall in love with what must come across as such a totally inappropriate person would certainly set alarm bells going for a genuine friend. The good citizens of Doriath have near zero experience of mortals and probably look at them as aliens. They don’t have to be ‘racists’ as such, but for Luthien to fall in love when she has not yet done so in her years of life (anyone game to calculate her age using the tables in NoME?), as a friend Daeron must surely be concerned, which is why he dobs on her to Thingol and why he goes looking for her.

As for his attitude to Maglor - Maglor will have his own tortured demons to face, which is why he adopts Elrond and Elros. I think Daeron may be wise enough to see this for what it is. Daeron can still be a casualty of either Kinslaying.
Click to expand...
So who would count as an inappropriate person to Thingol? He hasn't exactly been clear on who would be right for Lúthien (if any were right for Lúthien).
 
Ange1e4e5 said:
So who would count as an inappropriate person to Thingol? He hasn't exactly been clear on who would be right for Lúthien (if any were right for Lúthien).
Click to expand...
I was thinking the inappropriateness of Beren would be widespread in Doriath, not just Thingol. Daeron is a close enough friend of Luthien to stage an ‘intervention’ where others may not
 
If Hírilorn
(which actually does mean "Lady-tree" 😉 - so actually not so very far removed from "Old Lady Beech")

is persuaded by Luthien's song of beechnuts being released
(so it would be nice for it to take place in late summer or autumn - if Luthien's song does not hasten their ripening - which also could happen)

how about the "beech leaves' song" of safety and motherly care
being the one that Luthien has to combat or at least confront with her own song?

We know that Old Man Willow's leaves' "song" puts a spell of sleepiness on the hobbits,
so the sound ("song") of tree leaves rustling is already regarded
as having some strong magical powers in Tolkien's ME.

 
Last edited:
So, we will be preserving the open-ended nature of Daeron's story for this season, allowing for his return in later seasons. The last we see if him, he's near the Crissaegrim, trying to reach Lúthien before she gets to Angband.

We didn't decide which option to go with concerning his ultimate fate, but the idea of bringing him back for Dior's story in some capacity is generally approved.
 
MithLuin said:
So, we will be preserving the open-ended nature of Daeron's story for this season, allowing for his return in later seasons. The last we see if him, he's near the Crissaegrim, trying to reach Lúthien before she gets to Angband.

We didn't decide which option to go with concerning his ultimate fate, but the idea of bringing him back for Dior's story in some capacity is generally approved.
Click to expand...

Well hang on... when does he return to Doriath then? Are we saying he just hangs out on Ard-Galen indefinitely waiting for Luthien to arrive?
 
Ange1e4e5 said:
Well, he has to vacate no later than 472 F.A., lest he get run over in the Nirnaeth.
Click to expand...

And he has to have some access to water and to hunt and skin and cook something while in Anfauglith without orcs, bats and werewolves ever finding him. Which is even more problematic.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top