Session 6-10: Beren and Lúthien, Part 4

MithLuin

MithLuin

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Session 6-10 of Silm Film will be held on Thursday April 21st at 10 PM Eastern Time.

We have reached the moment where Beren and Lúthien are rescued by Eagles after stealing the silmaril from Morgoth's crown and confronting Carcaroth. (That will be the end of Episode 10). So, we have three episodes left to finish this story.

We have the return of Beren One-Hand and Lúthien to Doriath, where Thingol accepts their engagement and they get married. That is followed by the Hunt for the Wolf, with the deaths of Beren and Huan.

Then Lúthien fades, and we get her adventures in Mandos, accompanied by the winter of Thingol.

Our final episode will focus on the return of Beren and Lúthien as mortals, and their retreat to The Land of the Dead that Live in Ossiriand.

Also, we will get Glaurung turning Dorthonion into Taur-na-Fuin, Forest under Deadly Nightshade, in these last episodes.
 
I know there was some discussion on the forums about whether to prioritize the marriage or the birth of Dior in these episodes, since we'll only have time to show one in detail. Here's my two cents:

I think we've got enough going on in this season that Dior can wait. I do understand the argument that he is the culmination of their story - the first ever of the half-Elven. But I've been rather attached to the idea that, at the end of this season, all we need to see is Beren and Luthien walking into the East, and save the birth of Dior for the beginning of the Ruin of Doriath arc.

Now, what I would support is us showing or hinting at Luthien being pregnant. I think that can be fitted in and still work with the image I've had in my head. Furthermore, if we want to bring Daeron into the upbringing of young Dior, we would perhaps want to show him there when they arrive in Ossiriand - it's not necessary, but I'd personally like him to be present at the birth if he is to be involved in Dior's upbringing.

I'm also a little worried Dior will feel like an extra unnecessary conclusion. People criticized LotR, particularly the movies, for having so many darn endings. In a similar sense, I think that seeing Beren and Luthien meeting with Thingol and Melian one last time before leaving for Ossiriand will be satisfying on its own, and their arrival, settling in, and the birth of Dior will all be an extra 10-20 minutes spent doing kind of nothing. If the Swaying of Mandos is the climax of this story, then it shouldn't come 20 minutes into an hour-long episode.

I do agree we don't need to show the marriage in detail either, it's not hugely important and pretty much implied. So cutting both would leave time for the other parts of the story, and perhaps for some scenes that wouldn't fit otherwise - for instance, Beren and Luthien might have a conversation referencing the one which we determined Beren and Finrod would have in the dungeons of Tol-in-Gaurhoth.
 
kanji_d said:
I'm also a little worried Dior will feel like an extra unnecessary conclusion. People criticized LotR, particularly the movies, for having so many darn endings. In a similar sense, I think that seeing Beren and Luthien meeting with Thingol and Melian one last time before leaving for Ossiriand will be satisfying on its own, and their arrival, settling in, and the birth of Dior will all be an extra 10-20 minutes spent doing kind of nothing. If the Swaying of Mandos is the climax of this story, then it shouldn't come 20 minutes into an hour-long episode.

I do agree we don't need to show the marriage in detail either, it's not hugely important and pretty much implied. So cutting both would leave time for the other parts of the story, and perhaps for some scenes that wouldn't fit otherwise - for instance, Beren and Luthien might have a conversation referencing the one which we determined Beren and Finrod would have in the dungeons of Tol-in-Gaurhoth.
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Funny they say that about having so many endings in the film considering that they left a big one out in the Scouring of the Shire.
 
Yeah, the multiple endings is more jarring than the 12-minutes-of-screentime-after-the-Ring-is-destroyed.

We are putting the confrontation with Námo in Episode 12, so all of Episode 13 is dedicated to their return to life. I want to see the Land of the Dead that Live. Corey Olsen wants to see Lúthien healing Thingol's winter. I would be okay with ending with Lúthien pregnant, but I think we have time for baby Dior, if we want.

As for the wedding...it is going in Episode 11 with the Hunt for the Wolf.
 
I thought Thingol's winter was when Lúthien left to find Beren after escaping from her tower.

Unless it happens twice?...
 
If we manage to keep the focus on the theme of ‘Release from bondage’ with particular relevance to death and mortality, then the post-Mandos episode does not have to feel like it is added on. We started the season with what happens to Elves and Men when they die, and this itself follows from the Athrabeth towards the end of season 5. Since humans have been around, this has been a live issue which has reached its ‘crunch time’. I think there is scope for understanding what it now means for Luthien to be mortal and Beren returned from the dead. In this scenario the whole focus usually is on Luthien and her choices, but her choices also mean that uniquely among Men, Beren returns from the dead, and I think this should also be a big deal, especially as Beren did not get to choose for himself. The text tells us that he never spoke with Mortal man afterwards - perhaps because in some sense he is still ‘dead’. I think there would be a lot of resolution to tie up with this relating to perhaps a final reprise of Athrabeth themes.

Season 5 and 6 are therefore both about mortals and the emergence of the second Children of Iluvatar. We can then circle back in season 7 to the more Elf-focused Silmarillion issues of the consequence of the Oath of Feanor and the pride of the Noldor. I feel we need a clever way to end season 6 foreshadowing the next big battle and the next defeat, which presumably is the focus of next season.
 
Yeah
Ilana Mushin said:
Season 5 and 6 are therefore both about mortals and the emergence of the second Children of Iluvatar. We can then circle back in season 7 to the more Elf-focused Silmarillion issues of the consequence of the Oath of Feanor and the pride of the Noldor. I feel we need a clever way to end season 6 foreshadowing the next big battle and the next defeat, which presumably is the focus of next season.
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Yeah good question, how much nirnaeth foreshadowing is there at the end of S6? Or do we for once end on a high point? (Although at this point our audience should be trained to vaguely dread the future especially if we end on a happy wedding xD)

On the other hand it might be nice to have a tiny bit of happy buffer at the beginning of S7, dior's birth could serve as that, and a lead into the short ultimately rather in vain moment of hope among the eldar.
 
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Season 7 is the Nirnaeth season, that's true, but it is also very much the Húrin and Huor season...we aren't going to lose sight of our mortal storyline there. Not that I thought you were suggesting we would, Ilana, but just pointing that out.

I'm not sure how much foreshadowing/ominous foreboding we want to include at the end of the season. Perhaps something with Sauron crossing the mountains east?
 
MithLuin said:
Season 7 is the Nirnaeth season, that's true, but it is also very much the Húrin and Huor season...we aren't going to lose sight of our mortal storyline there. Not that I thought you were suggesting we would, Ilana, but just pointing that out.

I'm not sure how much foreshadowing/ominous foreboding we want to include at the end of the season. Perhaps something with Sauron crossing the mountains east?
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Hence my suggestion for the Hurin and Huor (unnamed) cameo in ep 11 (from Eagles passing over Gondolin). Some other places to 'foreshadow' the trouble ahead come naturally from our reaquaintance with the consequences of the Oath of Feanor (things that the C-bros say in this season, also Thingol's renewed antipathy to Feanorians and Nargothrond's newly forged antipathy - these play into the difficulties that Maedhros and Fingon have in getting the alliance together and one of the reasons the battle ends in tears. Sauron heading east sets up the Easterlings entry to the story in Season 7.
 
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