I just listen to session 196 (I think the latest - I´m not able to attend live since that is in the middle of the night for me- so the latest published as a podcast), and during the discussion of Aragorn's scornfull nickname(s) in Bree it seemed that the meaning of "stick-at-naught" was taken to mean "not sticking to a task". I have allways taken that to be a variation of the experssion "stick at nothing", meaning not stopping at anything to acchive a goal. A bit of irony given that we hear it from Ferny, who Aragorn says will "sell anything to anybody" (FotR, Strider). That meaning makes very clear the insult. While it is kind of insulting to say that Aragorn can´t stick to a task when he has stuck to his task of working against Sauron for longer than Ferny have lived, it is not on the same level as saying he would kill or steal or betray to get what he wants - which is how I have read Ferny's comments.
Stick-at-naught
- Thread starter Ragnelle
- Start date
Flammifer
Well-Known Member
Hi Ragnelle,
I totally agree with your rejection of 'stick at naught' meaning 'not sticking to a task', and agree with your definition of 'not stopping at anything to achieve a goal'. It is often used, as you say, as an insult, implying a lack of scruples or morals, and that the subject of the phrase will do reprehensible things to achieve his ends. That is probably how Bill Ferny intends it.
However, the phrase itself is ambiguous. It can also be interpreted as the subject being brave enough or daring enough to venture any danger or take any risks to achieve a noble goal. That is certainly true of Aragorn. I am thinking of wresting control of the Palantir from Sauron, or taking the Paths of the Dead.
So, Bill, while trying to cast aspersions on Strider, is also, unwittingly, truly describing him.
Whatever the Quenya translation of 'stick at nought' is, it would be a fitting name for Aragorn, to go with Telcontar, Elessar, Estel, and all of his other descriptive names.
I totally agree with your rejection of 'stick at naught' meaning 'not sticking to a task', and agree with your definition of 'not stopping at anything to achieve a goal'. It is often used, as you say, as an insult, implying a lack of scruples or morals, and that the subject of the phrase will do reprehensible things to achieve his ends. That is probably how Bill Ferny intends it.
However, the phrase itself is ambiguous. It can also be interpreted as the subject being brave enough or daring enough to venture any danger or take any risks to achieve a noble goal. That is certainly true of Aragorn. I am thinking of wresting control of the Palantir from Sauron, or taking the Paths of the Dead.
So, Bill, while trying to cast aspersions on Strider, is also, unwittingly, truly describing him.
Whatever the Quenya translation of 'stick at nought' is, it would be a fitting name for Aragorn, to go with Telcontar, Elessar, Estel, and all of his other descriptive names.
L
Longtimer
Guest
From a Thomas Ward poem: Besides, the king, tho' dear he buy it, Will stick at naught to purchase quiet. Clearly means will do anything.
Flammifer
Well-Known Member
Hi Longtimer,
If I am not mistaken, this is from the poem 'The English Reformation' (I think that is the name). In this case, I think the phrase is used negatively, implying that the king will not hesitate to do nefarious things to ensure quiet. But, although the negative implications of the phrase are most common, I do not think the phrase can only have negative implications?
If I am not mistaken, this is from the poem 'The English Reformation' (I think that is the name). In this case, I think the phrase is used negatively, implying that the king will not hesitate to do nefarious things to ensure quiet. But, although the negative implications of the phrase are most common, I do not think the phrase can only have negative implications?
L
Longtimer
Guest
Flammifer it's definitely negative. I agree with Rachel. Ferney is not saying Aragorn will not stick to a task rather he is saying Aragorn will do anything. He does not mean that in a good way. You have turned it into a good thing which is clearly not how it was intended, Your positive spin is interesting.
Bruce N H
Active Member
I agree that "stick-at-naught" should be read as "without scruples". That's also what the collective wisdom of the internet says. More importantly, the full context of Ferny's quote:
"I suppose you know who you’ve taken up with? That’s Stick-at-naught Strider, that is! Though I’ve heard other names not so pretty. Watch out tonight! And you, Sammie, don’t go ill-treating my poor old pony! Pah!"
Especially "watch out tonight!" which implies that once the hobbits go to sleep at some remote location Strider is likely to slit their throats and steal their gold. It fits with Frodo's initial impression when they get back to their room after the whole Man in the Moon debacle:
"He suspected now that he had fallen in with a rascal, and he thought uncomfortably that he had brought only a little money with him. All of it would hardly satisfy a rogue, and he could not spare any of it."
Ferny is playing on their fears based on Strider's outward appearance and possible reputation in town as potentially some sort of highwayman.
Bruce / Bricktales
"I suppose you know who you’ve taken up with? That’s Stick-at-naught Strider, that is! Though I’ve heard other names not so pretty. Watch out tonight! And you, Sammie, don’t go ill-treating my poor old pony! Pah!"
Especially "watch out tonight!" which implies that once the hobbits go to sleep at some remote location Strider is likely to slit their throats and steal their gold. It fits with Frodo's initial impression when they get back to their room after the whole Man in the Moon debacle:
"He suspected now that he had fallen in with a rascal, and he thought uncomfortably that he had brought only a little money with him. All of it would hardly satisfy a rogue, and he could not spare any of it."
Ferny is playing on their fears based on Strider's outward appearance and possible reputation in town as potentially some sort of highwayman.
Bruce / Bricktales