Supporting Characters

I would love to see all the Lords of Gondolin and their houses at least get named in the story before the Fall of Gondolin. Will they all have been lords in Valinor before they came to Middle-earth? Are they all Noldor, or are some Sindar?
I agree, I'd really like that. I don't know if they are all Noldor? Apart from the ones we have introduced, there's Egalmoth, who is a Noldo. Penlod is also a Noldo. Galdor could be a Sinda - and if we make him the same Galdor as Galdor of the Havens, we have already introduced him as Círdan's captain. We just have to decide why he joins Turgon. I feel he can’t just leave Círdan unless Círdan is somehow in on it or at least ok with it. It's not clear if Duilin and Salgant are of the Noldor. I guess we could choose. Salgant will be introduced when Maeglin comes to Gondolin, and perhaps he doesn't need more backstory? Egalmoth is involved in the Aredhel story. Duilin, then?

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About Galdor: He's the leader of the House of the Tree. It's a numerous house - it could be that it holds all of the Sindar? Sounds logical to me. Or at least half of them, if we want Duilin to be a Sinda, for example. (I don't think that these houses have to be all Sindar, they could be mixed, but the Sindar would keep to these houses.)
 
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Hope this doesn't burst anyone's bubble, but this entire project can easily be described as 'fanfic' or 'fanart'. It's a creative endeavor at adaptation based on Tolkien's work, so.......



I know i... kinda have to admit that it was actually pretty much THIS project what i was talking about... sorry

Salgant - or rather Talagand as we might want to rename him - certainly was a Noldo as far as i can see only Duilin and Galdor are uncertain and COULD be Sindar...

In a way i would like to fuse both Galdors into one character for this project... would make Galdor more interesting i think.
 
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Sorry, I totally forgot about Penlod. So:
  • Glorfindel..
  • .. Ecthelion...
  • ...and Rog are already introduced.
  • Galdor could be a Sinda, the same Galdor who is Círdan's captain (and later on is sent to Rivendell to the council of Elrond). Could work but I think there has to be an understanding between Galdor and Círdan.
  • Egalmoth will be involved along with Glorfindel and Ecthelion in Aredhel's story.
  • Salgant. Involved in Maeglin's story. Perhaps we want to introduce him earlier.
  • Duilin. Perhaps another Sinda?
  • Penlod. I haven't got any great (or less great) ideas. He's tall, and leads two Houses (Pillar and Snow). Why two houses? Is there a story there? I don't have my BOLT at hand at the moment.
 
Sorry, I totally forgot about Penlod. So:
  • Glorfindel..
  • .. Ecthelion...
  • ...and Rog are already introduced.
  • Galdor could be a Sinda, the same Galdor who is Círdan's captain (and later on is sent to Rivendell to the council of Elrond). Could work but I think there has to be an understanding between Galdor and Círdan.
  • Egalmoth will be involved along with Glorfindel and Ecthelion in Aredhel's story.
  • Salgant. Involved in Maeglin's story. Perhaps we want to introduce him earlier.
  • Duilin. Perhaps another Sinda?
  • Penlod. I haven't got any great (or less great) ideas. He's tall, and leads two Houses (Pillar and Snow). Why two houses? Is there a story there? I don't have my BOLT at hand at the moment.
We were going to have a story, but I don’t think it made it past the Captured Elves planning.

Also, thinking forward, I think Galdor should be dark-haired to contrast with Galdor the Tall of the House of Hador, who are mostly blond (unless you’re Turin).
 
We are planning to 'save' some of the Houses of Gondolin for later in the story. Obviously, the House of the Mole needs to wait for Maeglin to arrive in Gondolin (Season 5), and the House of the Wing needs Tuor (Season...8? 9?). Rhogrin (Rog) will arrive in Gondolin post-Nirnaeth Arnoediad, and thus the House of the Hammer of Wrath will likely be made up of mostly non-Gondolindrim who returned to Gondolin in the aftermath of the battle (those followers of Fingolfin/Fingon are likely the ones who are acknowledging Turgon as High King, so...there's that). So, that will likely be a Season 7 thing.

Most of the Sindar are dark-haired, so Galdor being dark-haired checks out. Character economy suggests that Galdor of the Havens and Galdor of Gondolin should be the same person (especially since we've already introduced him and established that he's alive in the First Age). We can show him pining for the Sea in Gondolin, and thus not leave Aredhel alone in her restlessness. Having him escape the destruction of Gondolin with Tuor and Idril would be fine. I do agree, though, that he'll need Círdan's 'blessing' to join Turgon's people. In Season 4, we have some of the Falathrim join Turgon at Vinyamar, and thus there is a conversation between Turgon and Círdan about that in Episode 4 (Of Beleriand and Its Realms), in which Círdan is basically asking for permission for his people to move into Nevrast. We also have Galdor serving as messenger between Círdan and Turgon in Ep 9 (Dagor Aglareb), which ends with both of them arriving with aid to save the city of Vinyamar.

I think Galdor, though a minor character, can be our prime example of a Sinda who accepts that the Kinslaying happened, but that not all of the Noldor are guilty. So, once it comes out that Turgon wasn't even in Alqualondë when it happened, it should be easy enough for there to be some sort of reconciliation there. And Galdor should definitely have a private conversation with Círdan before they move to Gondolin, in which he seeks (and gets) approval to lead the Sindar under Turgon. Having him rejoin Círdan after the sack of the Havens of Sirion should be fairly organic.


I did suggest a backstory for Penlod. It was my suggestion that the reason for two houses is that he has a dead/missing brother who was 'meant' to lead the other house. That brother could die in a number of ways - crossing the Helcaraxë, defending Vinyamar during the Dagor Aglareb, during the construction of one of the cities (hey, construction on that scale is dangerous), or being taken captive by Sauron. It was vetoed that 'Penlod's brother' be one of our 4 named captives, so certainly there wouldn't be any focus on this story. But, that doesn't mean that some explanation for two houses, one lord couldn't ever come up in conversation, so I don't think the idea was vetoed so much as the desire to tell that story in any detail was. If anyone has any alternative suggestions as to why there are two houses with only one lord, we can certainly entertain them. To my knowledge, Tolkien never suggested an explanation as to why there are two houses under Penlod.

The most obvious alternative is that one house is primarily Noldor, and the other is primarily Sindar. This works well with Penlod marrying a Sinda woman, and their child being Pengolodh.

Or, of course, we could do 'all of the above', should the need to explain the situation ever arise.
 
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I think Galdor should be dark-haired to contrast with Galdor the Tall of the House of Hador, who are mostly blond (unless you’re Turin).
If it’s Galdor of the Havens/captain of the Falathrim we’re talking about, then he has the look of one of the Falathrim. Imho he could have dark hair.
Now that you remind me that we’ve also got Galdor the Tall, I really think this Galdor should be Círdan’s captain. Let’s not have three Galdors.
 
We are planning to 'save' some of the Houses of Gondolin for later in the story. Obviously, the House of the Mole needs to wait for Maeglin to arrive in Gondolin (Season 5), and the House of the Wing needs Tuor (Season...8? 9?). Rhogrin (Rog) will arrive in Gondolin post-Nirnaeth Arnoediad, and thus the House of the Hammer of Wrath will likely be made up of mostly non-Gondolindrim who returned to Gondolin in the aftermath of the battle (those followers of Fingolfin/Fingon are likely the ones who are acknowledging Turgon as High King, so...there's that). So, that will likely be a Season 7 thing.

Most of the Sindar are dark-haired, so Galdor being dark-haired checks out. Character economy suggests that Galdor of the Havens and Galdor of Gondolin should be the same person (especially since we've already introduced him and established that he's alive in the First Age). We can show him pining for the Sea in Gondolin, and thus not leave Aredhel alone in her restlessness. Having him escape the destruction of Gondolin with Tuor and Idril would be fine. I do agree, though, that he'll need Círdan's 'blessing' to join Turgon's people. In Season 4, we have some of the Falathrim join Turgon at Vinyamar, and thus there is a conversation between Turgon and Círdan about that in Episode 4 (Of Beleriand and Its Realms), in which Círdan is basically asking for permission for his people to move into Nevrast. We also have Galdor serving as messenger between Círdan and Turgon in Ep 9 (Dagor Aglareb), which ends with both of them arriving with aid to save the city of Vinyamar.

I think Galdor, though a minor character, can be our prime example of a Sinda who accepts that the Kinslaying happened, but that not all of the Noldor are guilty. So, once it comes out that Turgon wasn't even in Alqualondë when it happened, it should be easy enough for there to be some sort of reconciliation there. And Galdor should definitely have a private conversation with Círdan before they move to Gondolin, in which he seeks (and gets) approval to lead the Sindar under Turgon. Having him rejoin Círdan after the sack of the Havens of Sirion should be fairly organic.


I did suggest a backstory for Penlod. It was my suggestion that the reason for two houses is that he has a dead/missing brother who was 'meant' to lead the other house. That brother could die in a number of ways - crossing the Helcaraxë, defending Vinyamar during the Dagor Aglareb, during the construction of one of the cities (hey, construction on that scale is dangerous), or being taken captive by Sauron. It was vetoed that 'Penlod's brother' be one of our 4 named captives, so certainly there wouldn't be any focus on this story. But, that doesn't mean that some explanation for two houses, one lord couldn't ever come up in conversation, so I don't think the idea was vetoed so much as the desire to tell that story in any detail was. If anyone has any alternative suggestions as to why there are two houses with only one lord, we can certainly entertain them. To my knowledge, Tolkien never suggested an explanation as to why there are two houses under Penlod.

The most obvious alternative is that one house is primarily Noldor, and the other is primarily Sindar. This works well with Penlod marrying a Sinda woman, and their child being Pengolodh.

Or, of course, we could do 'all of the above', should the need to explain the situation ever arise.
Hehe it seems you beat me to a few points here. But nice that we basically agree. I like your suggestion that Penlod lost a brother. Never mind that the execs vetoes or didn't care for it - they can very well like it further down the road. i mean, he isn't a named cative now but he can be later on, we can learn when we get to know Penlod that his brother was taken. I think the House of Snow being tied to Helcaraxë would be nice. The Pillar would be Penlod's own original House.
 
If it’s Galdor of the Havens/captain of the Falathrim we’re talking about, then he has the look of one of the Falathrim. Imho he could have dark hair.
Now that you remind me that we’ve also got Galdor the Tall, I really think this Galdor should be Círdan’s captain. Let’s not have three Galdors.
Should we have cast Galdor this season? It might alleviate the possibly large amount of characters we’ll have to cast for Season 5.
 
We are planning to 'save' some of the Houses of Gondolin for later in the story. Obviously, the House of the Mole needs to wait for Maeglin to arrive in Gondolin (Season 5), and the House of the Wing needs Tuor (Season...8? 9?). Rhogrin (Rog) will arrive in Gondolin post-Nirnaeth Arnoediad, and thus the House of the Hammer of Wrath will likely be made up of mostly non-Gondolindrim who returned to Gondolin in the aftermath of the battle (those followers of Fingolfin/Fingon are likely the ones who are acknowledging Turgon as High King, so...there's that). So, that will likely be a Season 7 thing.

Most of the Sindar are dark-haired, so Galdor being dark-haired checks out. Character economy suggests that Galdor of the Havens and Galdor of Gondolin should be the same person (especially since we've already introduced him and established that he's alive in the First Age). We can show him pining for the Sea in Gondolin, and thus not leave Aredhel alone in her restlessness. Having him escape the destruction of Gondolin with Tuor and Idril would be fine. I do agree, though, that he'll need Círdan's 'blessing' to join Turgon's people. In Season 4, we have some of the Falathrim join Turgon at Vinyamar, and thus there is a conversation between Turgon and Círdan about that in Episode 4 (Of Beleriand and Its Realms), in which Círdan is basically asking for permission for his people to move into Nevrast. We also have Galdor serving as messenger between Círdan and Turgon in Ep 9 (Dagor Aglareb), which ends with both of them arriving with aid to save the city of Vinyamar.

I think Galdor, though a minor character, can be our prime example of a Sinda who accepts that the Kinslaying happened, but that not all of the Noldor are guilty. So, once it comes out that Turgon wasn't even in Alqualondë when it happened, it should be easy enough for there to be some sort of reconciliation there. And Galdor should definitely have a private conversation with Círdan before they move to Gondolin, in which he seeks (and gets) approval to lead the Sindar under Turgon. Having him rejoin Círdan after the sack of the Havens of Sirion should be fairly organic.


I did suggest a backstory for Penlod. It was my suggestion that the reason for two houses is that he has a dead/missing brother who was 'meant' to lead the other house. That brother could die in a number of ways - crossing the Helcaraxë, defending Vinyamar during the Dagor Aglareb, during the construction of one of the cities (hey, construction on that scale is dangerous), or being taken captive by Sauron. It was vetoed that 'Penlod's brother' be one of our 4 named captives, so certainly there wouldn't be any focus on this story. But, that doesn't mean that some explanation for two houses, one lord couldn't ever come up in conversation, so I don't think the idea was vetoed so much as the desire to tell that story in any detail was. If anyone has any alternative suggestions as to why there are two houses with only one lord, we can certainly entertain them. To my knowledge, Tolkien never suggested an explanation as to why there are two houses under Penlod.

The most obvious alternative is that one house is primarily Noldor, and the other is primarily Sindar. This works well with Penlod marrying a Sinda woman, and their child being Pengolodh.

Or, of course, we could do 'all of the above', should the need to explain the situation ever arise.
We could use Pengolodh as part of the time passes idea, since Elves take 100 years until they’re considered full-grown.
 
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What if the second house that Penlod takes over belonged not to his brother but to Aredhel?

Should we also have Legolas of Gondolin (probably with a different name)?
 
Honestly, I think we'll just leave out Legolas of Gondolin altogether. We'll have Glorfindel take on a balrog to save the escaping refugees, so there won't be any need for Legolas. I mean, there can be a nameless elf who dies during the escape who is 'stand in' for Legolas, but.....

Interesting thought with Aredhel! If we don't use that for Penlod's second House, that should certainly be the source of the people who become House of the Mole.
 
Honestly, I think we'll just leave out Legolas of Gondolin altogether. We'll have Glorfindel take on a balrog to save the escaping refugees, so there won't be any need for Legolas. I mean, there can be a nameless elf who dies during the escape who is 'stand in' for Legolas, but.....

Interesting thought with Aredhel! If we don't use that for Penlod's second House, that should certainly be the source of the people who become House of the Mole.
So Maeglin would inherit those of Aredhel’s House?
 
We have more than enough Elves at Gondolin, i don't think we need Legolas I .He can be a nameless scout who is there somewhere in the background... i mean an extra whose picture we use for Legolas card when the Silmarillion TCG comes out... -we'll definitely have that happen, i mean... franchised games and all sorts of toys and merch.
 
Maeglin could be offered the folk of Aredhel’s house but choose instead to draw people most like himself from the other houses to form the House of the Mole.

If Aredhel is in charge of a house, should Idril be as well? Maybe she could lead the folk that later become the house of the Wing.
 
Maeglin could be offered the folk of Aredhel’s house but choose instead to draw people most like himself from the other houses to form the House of the Mole.

If Aredhel is in charge of a house, should Idril be as well? Maybe she could lead the folk that later become the house of the Wing.

We have to be careful about having it both ways - we can't have someone like Galdor perhaps not allowed to leave Cirdan's service, and then a whole house worth of Elves in Gondolin abandon their houses to join Maeglin. Either it's not big deal for Elves to float around from master to master, or else they more or less always (and always means a lot for Elves) stay within their original group.

I would think that they almost always stay within their original group, except in unusual or one-off circumstances (I could imagine a lot of Elves, both Noldo and Sinda, formerly serving other masters joining Turgon in Vinyamar and then moving on to Gondolin. But that's an exceptional circumstance with the hand of Ulmo at the tiller. It's a general rule but not an absolute rule - people aren't forbidden from freely moving about (in a political sense), they just don't want to. Almost always, but not universally.
 
We have to be careful about having it both ways - we can't have someone like Galdor perhaps not allowed to leave Cirdan's service, and then a whole house worth of Elves in Gondolin abandon their houses to join Maeglin. Either it's not big deal for Elves to float around from master to master, or else they more or less always (and always means a lot for Elves) stay within their original group.

I would think that they almost always stay within their original group, except in unusual or one-off circumstances (I could imagine a lot of Elves, both Noldo and Sinda, formerly serving other masters joining Turgon in Vinyamar and then moving on to Gondolin. But that's an exceptional circumstance with the hand of Ulmo at the tiller. It's a general rule but not an absolute rule - people aren't forbidden from freely moving about (in a political sense), they just don't want to. Almost always, but not universally.
Well, we’re going to have a whole group of Elves led by Rhogrin that are going to transfer from Fingon to Turgon when Fingon is killed in the Nirnaeth Arnoediad.
 
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