Swords

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by pdepaolis, Jun 13, 2015.

  1. Nicholas Palazzo

    Nicholas Palazzo Well-Known Member

    The jian kind of makes sense for Galadriel, but I would certainly argue strongly against the use of cavalry sabers for our elves. They are designed for use against unarmored targets, which is a result of the advent of gunpowder.

    Marielle, the reason for the shape of a scimitar is specifically to deal with one of the problems I just mentioned. The flare at the end of the blade shifts the weight towards the end, giving more percussive power to cuts. This allows for a greater ability to cut through light armors, and deliver more force through heavier ones.
     
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  2. Marielle

    Marielle Well-Known Member

    Freely confessing ignorance here: does the Scimitar count as "cavalry sabers"? If so, could we get away with an ahistoric, modified form of it for Galadriel?
     
  3. Nicholas Palazzo

    Nicholas Palazzo Well-Known Member


    The scimitar could be considered a cavalry saber in a sense, but my objection is more to the "modern" weapons developed for post-gunpowder cavalry troopers.

    Such as:
    [​IMG]

    As opposed to the kilij or scimitar you posted earlier, or perhaps a dao.

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Nicholas Palazzo

    Nicholas Palazzo Well-Known Member

    Though I have to point out that these weapons tend to require heavy and brutal chopping motions in order to damage an armored opponent. We won't get the kind of elegant draw cuts and slashes associated with saber dueling.
     
  5. Haerangil

    Haerangil Well-Known Member

    other possibility is she's wielding a falmari weapon... some cutlasses don't looktthat different frim sabers... they van be curved at least.
     
  6. Nicholas Palazzo

    Nicholas Palazzo Well-Known Member


    Again, the Falmari have zero reasons to have an offensive weapon like a cutlass, which is a bit Victorian to begin with.
     
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  7. Halstein

    Halstein Member

    We need Matt Easton here. www.youtube.com/user/scholagladiatoria

    Also, I am a bit uneasy with giving the Elves "crooked" swords. J.R.R. Tolkien seemed to use curved swords a bit like old Westerns used black hats.
     
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  8. Nicholas Palazzo

    Nicholas Palazzo Well-Known Member

    Tolkien does kind of do that. The Uruk-hai, however, are described as carrying straight-bladed swords, so I don't think we need to treat it as an unbreakable rule.

    I do, however, still maintain my like of the jian for Galadriel. It's use lends itself well to graceful, dance- like movements in ways that most of these chopping weapons do not and it is far better for thrusting techniques against armor. I feel like it can be modified slightly to make it less culturally specific.
     
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  9. Haerangil

    Haerangil Well-Known Member

    well as far as i know the cutlass developed from a large woodmans knife, a tool which later became an offensive weapon. so no "real cutlasses" in the sense, but large working knifes for the teleri?
     
  10. Haerangil

    Haerangil Well-Known Member

    or galadriel may have gotten her jian from tulkas court if she did take part in athletic feats there...

    i guess tulkas people might have some weapons for sparring.
     
  11. Nicholas Palazzo

    Nicholas Palazzo Well-Known Member


    Long knives or machete-type implements I'm ok with. If we wanted to give them an exotic feel, we might consider the kukri.

    [​IMG]


    This, I caution against. Much is made in Season 2 about the forging of weapons by the Noldor. While I recognize that the material as written leaves room for the idea here, I do feel it would be confusing to viewers.
     
  12. Marielle

    Marielle Well-Known Member

    I don't think Galadriel having a weapon needs a lengthy explanation, like a modified Falamari tool or from Tulkas' halls. What's wrong with the Noldo Gladriel having a Noldo weapon? She could have requested Fingolfin or another kinsmen forge her one after Feanor drew his sword on his brother. And it's not at all unlikely that a Noldo craftsmen would make her an essentially jian-like blade, as they obviously would craft the weapon to suit the intended wielder. Remember, we're showing a deeply flawed (though not mortally so) Galadriel in this show, one who "wants to rule realms of her own" and all that. She might have even been one of the first to request a blade, while the Noldor were still in the "maybe we should go back to Middle Earth -- with the Valar's blessing, of course -- to do some good" mindset.
     
  13. Haerangil

    Haerangil Well-Known Member

    yes i guess a machete or kukri inspired long knife would be fitting for sailors and travellers. and maybe a light axe,not yet a boarding axe but something that can be useful on a ship.a multipurpose tool.

    galadriels weapon... i'm still not sure about. i'd like some kind of weapon that would be related to her athletic feats... she's into sports we know.but on the other hand a royal weapon, like a long sword or arming sword would too be fitting.
     
  14. Nicholas Palazzo

    Nicholas Palazzo Well-Known Member

    Yes, I think it quite likely that Galadriel would acquire a weapon in a similar fashion to the rest of the Noldor, rather than us needing to find an additional explanation.
     
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  15. Marielle

    Marielle Well-Known Member

    Not sure what you mean here... like an Olympics or martial arts weapon? I don't really see her as ranged, so javelin would be out. Most martial arts weapons are pretty recognizable and come with audience assumptions... if we go that route I say we embrace it fully and give her a set of Chakram ;)
     
  16. Haerangil

    Haerangil Well-Known Member

    haha... well we don't know much about noldo sports.. maybe she was really into wrestling or football.
     
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  17. Ange1e4e5

    Ange1e4e5 Active Member

    How about Orcs use machetes, or something that looks like a scaled-up Bowie knife, like this?
    [​IMG]

    Also, what about the people of Brethil. I know in the Children of Hurin they are mentioned as using spears and bows, but how about axes, since they're woodsmen?
     
  18. Nicholas Palazzo

    Nicholas Palazzo Well-Known Member

    The knife there looks like a German Messer, (or ... knife). I'm fine with that for the Orcs, though our Scandinavian friends are welcome to comment on that. That said, the more ancient seas might also work well.

    [​IMG]


    As to the Men of Brethil and axe-wielding, axes for timber and battle-axes are very different. That said, axes are much cheaper to produce than swords. Spears are cheaper still, and double as hunting weapons. We would probably see a lot of spears amongst them.
     
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  19. Haerangil

    Haerangil Well-Known Member

    I believe we could give the Halethrim Spear, Javelin, Long Knife, Short bow and Light Axe.

    I guess we#d have to think what we do understand as a wood-people... the Haladin certainly were, but do we have historic parallels? I have to think of the early germans for example... prior to roman and celtic influence that#s pretty much what the german tribes were: forest people.

    the early Hallstatt Celts used Axes as weapons, but they later came widely out of fashion until axes reappeared again as weapons among the picts...

    Pictish war-axes are often thought to have developed out of tools... the medieval welsh used axe types in battle which imitated anglo-saxon models and were very different from the early celtic hache à douille.

    Orcs... well we know they used knives, scimitars and many other weapons.. i#d like the idea of orcish knives as some sort of messer weapon. But as i mentioned before i really think the early orcish weapons should not look too primitive... these are orcs who have demonic teachers, and among Morgoth#s helpers would be corrupted spirits from Aules Folk who would forge weapons and armour and teach the Orcs of their craft. If there ever was such a tzhing as a high orcish culture it would have been at Angband. Later Orcs could be more primitive, as they fall into barbary and self-destruction without a stronger will dominating them...
     
  20. Ange1e4e5

    Ange1e4e5 Active Member

    Long knife link does not work.
     

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