The Beornings' tolls

[SteveR]

My apologies if this has been covered. I am still catching up on Episode 111, but... re: Frodo's conversation with Gloin in Episode 110...

"'But their tolls are high," he added with a shake of his head.

Is it possible that Gloin is referring not to payment required by the Beornings, but the tolls they themselves pay to keep the pass open? Or perhaps both? Keeping such a dangerous pass open would be of significant cost to the Beornings. Most important is the physical toll of lost lives, but there is also the cost of weapons, road maintenance, and safe resting places along the way. Perhaps Gloin is shaking his head not at the money he has to pay, but in sadness at the human cost of keeping the pass open for travel, or a mixture of the two?

 

[Haerangil]

Good observation!

 

[Lalaith]

I keep coming back to this, and I'm still not sure how to solve this linguistic puzzle. Maybe someone with the E-text could find out how often the word "toll" is used in the rest of the book, and with what meaning?,

 

[Beech27]

A search of mine shows no other uses of "toll".

Still, I think the context we do have is useful:
They are valiant men and keep open the High Pass and the Ford of Carrock. But their tolls are high,' he added with a shake of his head; 'and like Beorn of old they are not over fond of dwarves.

​

Their tolls being high after noting their valiance could suggest a connection, that it requires brave men to pay the necessary cost in lives. But following with a note about their feelings for dwarves suggests to me that the Beornings might be literally charging an onerous amount to use the pass--maybe even instituting a dwarf tax.

So, I prefer to read both meanings as present. We can perhaps see the Beornings' response to Gloin's complaint in his own words; and we can decide whether he's being diplomatic enough to include it, or does so accidentally.

 

[amysrevenge]

I like the idea, but I think it's a bit of a stretch. For it to mean both things, the sentence has to make sense for either alone. Imagine a world where there are no cash-money tolls, and only the lost lives. "But their tolls are high" would be an awkward way to use that singular meaning of "toll", in a way that it is not awkward for the singular cash-money meaning of "toll".

 

[Ardent Crayon]

maybe even instituting a dwarf tax.

It could also be a wagon tax: heavy cargo-laden wagons would cause more damage to the road surface, and would attract more attention from marauding orcs. From what little we know of trade in Middle Earth, the dwarves are perhaps the most likely to be transiting the mountains with wagons so this could function as a de facto dwarf tax.

 

[SteveR]

I like the idea, but I think it's a bit of a stretch. For it to mean both things, the sentence has to make sense for either alone. Imagine a world where there are no cash-money tolls, and only the lost lives. "But their tolls are high" would be an awkward way to use that singular meaning of "toll", in a way that it is not awkward for the singular cash-money meaning of "toll".

I'm not sure I understand why the singular-use case would be awkward in either situation, but I may be mistaking your meaning. If everything shifts to singular and is clarified in context, it would go something like this:

Cash toll, singular, is "But the toll they charge is high."
Lost lives, singular, is "But the toll they pay is high."

In either case, I think it would be less awkward to make it active: "but they charge/pay a high/heavy toll" but I'm trying to stay with the original construction.

My conclusion would be that things can be two things, and Gloin could mean either, or both.

 

[amysrevenge]

I guess what I mean is that "toll" can mean one singular exchange of money, in a way that I don't think it can mean one singular casualty. Maybe it's just me, but the money tolls are both collective and singular, while the death tolls are more of a collective thing. The money tolls are made up of individual tolls, while the death tolls are made up of individual deaths, not individual tolls.

Expanding on that, thinking more as I type, for money tolls each individual exchange can be high or low, and the count of individual exchanges can be large or small. For death tolls, each individual death is the same, it is only the count of deaths that will be large or small. The sentence "But their tolls are high" suggests to me that each individual toll paid is high, not that there are a large number of tolls of whatever size. It's a qualitative description, not a quantitative one. But there is no qualitative for death tolls, only quantitative. So for me while you could parallel the money tolls and the death tolls, this isn't the word choice you would use to do it.

 

[Anthony Lawther]

It is extremely unusual to see "death toll" in the plural form, and when it does it is often used in terms of comparison between events or locations.

Another important consideration is that the meaning associating toll with lives lost or spent is introduced in the late 19th century, so highly unlikely to be the meaning Tolkien would rely on.