Haerangil
Well-Known Member
The last podcast gave me some trouble...
The hosts have brought up the question of how the early hildor look like, again not only talking about ethnic diversity but also possible sub-races like (proto)-hobbits and Druedain (why not giants also? Or beornings..).
We already did decide that we do not want ethnic diversity for elves... which i still think was a coward idea (sorry but being honest). We decuded that it would be odd to have different ethnicities of elv3s at cuivienen and then hsve eldar and avari divide alond ethnical lines... and ended us up with all elves being a bunch of white people , which i think is even worse.
Now with the hildor i have a quite different issue because we probably WILL have the ancestors of the Haradrim and Easterlings at hildorien too...
But corey mentioned the different "ethnicity" of the Numenoreans... them becoming taller, more elf-like and longlived as a result of the intervention of the Valar.And i think he is wrong!
Just as the eagles or Ents are not created by the valar, nut only granted to them by the mercy of Eru... also the blessing of the Numenoreans does not directly come from the Valar or the closeness to the immortal lands but only indirectly.The true reason is they are blessed by Eru... as we did argue before they have sort of re-evolutioned , because ofvtheir ancestors deeds, and are even or at last close to the original men , in their pre-fallen state.
So the Valar cannot create new ethnicities of men on their own by "blessing". No hobbits and no druedain. Even Melkor cannot "warp" his servants... he can dominate them and make them orc-like ( maybe troll-like) but that is it. He cannot make them pre-fallen or bless them in the way eru can. Quite the opposite is true... mannish fall and subsequrnt degeneration is what he does to them!
So what are Hobbits and Druedain?
I already suggestwd, and it is possibly hinted at by jrrt too, that the druedain might be descendants of men who were tried to change and make orc-like by morgoth, but who were able to escape him.
I suggest hobbits are a strain of men who are sort of "unfallen"... because... well hobbits are closer to nature and earth than humans are.or maybe hobbits "fell" in a way different to normal humans and so did degenerate in a less hurting way?
Anyway i suggest there are ethnic diversities among the first hildor, and proto-halflings, proto-druedain and maybe other sub-groups are among these too...
And yes, i am aware of the fact that most of this is irrelevant for the depiction, as , sadly, we did decide against showing the hildorien plot on screen, but only to mention it in dialogue ( since we still, irrationally, avoid flashbacks).
Still it seems important to me in matters of cosmology.
The hosts have brought up the question of how the early hildor look like, again not only talking about ethnic diversity but also possible sub-races like (proto)-hobbits and Druedain (why not giants also? Or beornings..).
We already did decide that we do not want ethnic diversity for elves... which i still think was a coward idea (sorry but being honest). We decuded that it would be odd to have different ethnicities of elv3s at cuivienen and then hsve eldar and avari divide alond ethnical lines... and ended us up with all elves being a bunch of white people , which i think is even worse.
Now with the hildor i have a quite different issue because we probably WILL have the ancestors of the Haradrim and Easterlings at hildorien too...
But corey mentioned the different "ethnicity" of the Numenoreans... them becoming taller, more elf-like and longlived as a result of the intervention of the Valar.And i think he is wrong!
Just as the eagles or Ents are not created by the valar, nut only granted to them by the mercy of Eru... also the blessing of the Numenoreans does not directly come from the Valar or the closeness to the immortal lands but only indirectly.The true reason is they are blessed by Eru... as we did argue before they have sort of re-evolutioned , because ofvtheir ancestors deeds, and are even or at last close to the original men , in their pre-fallen state.
So the Valar cannot create new ethnicities of men on their own by "blessing". No hobbits and no druedain. Even Melkor cannot "warp" his servants... he can dominate them and make them orc-like ( maybe troll-like) but that is it. He cannot make them pre-fallen or bless them in the way eru can. Quite the opposite is true... mannish fall and subsequrnt degeneration is what he does to them!
So what are Hobbits and Druedain?
I already suggestwd, and it is possibly hinted at by jrrt too, that the druedain might be descendants of men who were tried to change and make orc-like by morgoth, but who were able to escape him.
I suggest hobbits are a strain of men who are sort of "unfallen"... because... well hobbits are closer to nature and earth than humans are.or maybe hobbits "fell" in a way different to normal humans and so did degenerate in a less hurting way?
Anyway i suggest there are ethnic diversities among the first hildor, and proto-halflings, proto-druedain and maybe other sub-groups are among these too...
And yes, i am aware of the fact that most of this is irrelevant for the depiction, as , sadly, we did decide against showing the hildorien plot on screen, but only to mention it in dialogue ( since we still, irrationally, avoid flashbacks).
Still it seems important to me in matters of cosmology.