The narrator's foxy thoughts

[Ambrosius Aurelianus]

Regarding the thinking fox, who is supposed to be the narrator here? Is this still Frodo's account of his story? And if so, how would he know what a fox is thinking? Did he have some later, unwritten-of meeting with Radagast, where Radagast tells him something along the lines of "Oh yes, a fox told me that he saw you and your friends camping out under the stars back at the beginning of your journey. Bit of luck he was a friend of mine!"

 

[NotACat]

This discussion gave rise to an idea of genius proportions in the Twitch chat:

Anarwen : LOTRO should have Fox runs along with the Chicken runs.
kimber_nelson : Fox trots and chicken runs!​

Absolutely this should be a thing, the Creep version of the Freep Chicken play!

You should be able to become a Fox and raid those farms between Hobbiton and Michel Delving. Given appropriate amounts of Morale to match the Chickens (i.e. minuscule ), we could have epic battles between flocks of Chickens and skulks of Foxes—and yes, I looked that up —all having to avoid the marauding Wolves which (as we know ) have much more Morale but are vulnerable to concerted Chicken Assault. It might even happen that Foxes and Chickens band together against their mutual foe for a while…

 

[Milthaliel]

Regarding the thinking fox, who is supposed to be the narrator here? Is this still Frodo's account of his story? And if so, how would he know what a fox is thinking? Did he have some later, unwritten-of meeting with Radagast, where Radagast tells him something along the lines of "Oh yes, a fox told me that he saw you and your friends camping out under the stars back at the beginning of your journey. Bit of luck he was a friend of mine!"

I like the Radagast idea! I wonder if this part isn't still Bilbo, writing from Frodo's account. Doesn't explain how he would know about the fox, but it still sounds very Hobbit book-ish in that part of the story. It feels like a little embellishment Bilbo would add.

 

[amysrevenge]

If the narrator (ie. Mr. "Express Train") is a modern voice retelling an ancient story, maybe our narrator is also exercising some editorial control and injecting the thinking fox for narrative effect himself?

 

[Milthaliel]

I think that could be the case, too. But I do tend to think that Bilbo (or even Frodo, thinking about the journey back when he was more "light hearted" about it) might have influenced the modern narrator's choice there.

 

[amysrevenge]

Yeah I don't know that I actually think my proposal is accurate. Just spit balling possibilities.

 

[Milthaliel]

I think it's fun to think about/talk about the possibilities! I'm honestly surprised that people have a problem with the thinking fox, when there's talking eagles, spiders and wolves. I suppose because this is supposed to be a "normal" fox. But, I'm pretty sure I can read my cat thinking "Why has she not fed me yet, it's not like I didn't scream at her for 90 minutes straight starting at 4AM."

 

[Ambrosius Aurelianus]

Good thoughts! I suppose it could be Bilbo exercising artistic license, inventing little side stories for the fun of it. But I sort of like to think it really happened. I suppose my Radagast theory *could* have happened, eh? Why not? haha

 

[Milthaliel]

Good thoughts! I suppose it could be Bilbo exercising artistic license, inventing little side stories for the fun of it. But I sort of like to think it really happened. I suppose my Radagast theory *could* have happened, eh? Why not? haha

Lol, I really like the idea of Radagast telling Frodo (or Bilbo, or both) the story. I often wondered what happened to Radagast after his brief appearance in the beginning of the book. I like imagining a little scene where he, Gandalf, Frodo (and Sam, of course), and Bilbo (maybe all of the fellowship?) get together and get the whole story from start to finish. Including Mr. Fox's thoughts!

 

[FoxFire]

So why can't the narrator (whomever it happens to be) simply be anthropomorphizing the fox like we humans tend to do. This to me is the simplest explanation.

We imagine (at least) that our pets and other animals have human like thoughts. And for all we know maybe they do. But regardless we do at least 'pretend' sometimes that animals think the sorts of things a human might think. in whatever language it is we happen to speak. In any event, the narrator could simply be inserting thoughts into the fox's mind, as in Hey here is this fox, I wonder what it would be thinking if it thought like a human, seeing this strange site of a few hobbits traipsing around in the woods at night.

 

[Haerangil]

i believe the fix was an element of shidting from the hobbit world to the lotr world. the hobbit book was more childrens book and had those folklore fairytale elements like talking,intelligent animals in it... lotr is more epic,high fantasy, but in the early chapters, in the shire, theres some element of transition fron one kind of literature to the other...