The Palantiri

[cellardur]

I take it that Curufin inherited his father's skill in oratory. We are certainly never told about anything that he crafted, though we could invent something. He carries a dwarf-made knife, at any rate. If Curufin has the ability to make palantiri, then they must be made of some substance only found in Valinor, or else he would make more in Middle-earth.

Maybe he had enough, maybe he didn't need them, maybe he didn't have the time and maybe as you said there's a material only found in Valinor.

Curufin the crafty, who inherited most his father's skill of hand

Many other words he spoke, as potent as were long before in Tirion the words of his father that first inflamed the Noldor to rebellion. And after Celegorm Curufin spoke, more softly but with no less power, conjuring in the minds of the Elves a vision of war and the ruin of Nargothrond. So great a fear did he set in their hearts that never after until the time of Túrin would any Elf of that realm go into open battle; but with stealth and ambush, with wizardry and venomed dart, they pursued all strangers, forgetting the bonds of kinship. Thus they fell from the valour and freedom of the Elves of old, and their land was darkened.

It's true we are never told of anything he makes, but he has his father's skill of hand and his skill in oratory. Curufin is a real Renaissance Man (or rather Elf). If Feanor did not shine so brightly then Curufin would, but I don't think he was ever jealous of his father unlike Celebrimbor will be.

 

[amysrevenge]

Well, there's also a long-running theme of folks not being able to replicate their finest past work (isn't that a thing for the Teleri and their ships, for instance), even if there's no explicit reason given why.

 

[Faelivrin]

I think it would be plausible that Curufin helped make the Palantiri, rather than being able to make them by himself without Father. And/or cannot repeat that feat again.

I don't know if we can actually consider retconning Season 2 to add him to the making, though. I thought any kind of retconning was strictly forbidden.

As for what Curufin makes, we get to invent some cool stuff because Tolkien never got around to inventing it.

 

[Nicholas Palazzo]

I don't know if we can actually consider retconning Season 2 to add him to the making, though. I thought any kind of retconning was strictly forbidden.

Forbidden is a rather strong word. I'm reticent to make any changes to approved outlines without authorization. However, let me take a look and see how old we had Curufin at the time. If it will not be a major alteration, we might be able to squeeze it in. I need to get a better handle on how this was handled.

 

[Ange1e4e5]

I think it would be plausible that Curufin helped make the Palantiri, rather than being able to make them by himself without Father. And/or cannot repeat that feat again.

I don't know if we can actually consider retconning Season 2 to add him to the making, though. I thought any kind of retconning was strictly forbidden.

As for what Curufin makes, we get to invent some cool stuff because Tolkien never got around to inventing it.

Crikey, we got carte blanche.

 

[cellardur]

Forbidden is a rather strong word. I'm reticent to make any changes to approved outlines without authorization. However, let me take a look and see how old we had Curufin at the time. If it will not be a major alteration, we might be able to squeeze it in. I need to get a better handle on how this was handled.

If age is a problem or no authorization, then as suggested we could possibly come up with something else he makes. It could be something he invents in ME, that the Noldor use for them. It does not have to be particularly mind blowing it could just be a practical device like the Feanorian lamps.

 

[amysrevenge]

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but aren't there two distinct... classes(?) of palantir?

Like the Osgiliath stone was a master stone or something? Am I imagining that?

Maybe that's an in for Curufin to work on the lesser stones.

 

[Nicholas Palazzo]

Ok, so in our telling of the making of the Palantiri, we did not actually _show_ Feanor making them, but we did show that he had made them. In S02E08, we show Feanor showing one of the stones to Aule in one scene, likely a prototype.

In S02E09, we have this scene:

Sometime later, Finwë is looking into the palantir that Fëanor gave him. We see him looking at various locations in Middle Earth, but he sees landscapes, not people. He tells Fëanor that it's an ingenious device, but he can't find his friend Elwë anywhere. Fëanor seems uninterested, and informs his father that he's moved on to a new project now.

Followed by this one:

3. Noldor workshop haven in Tirion. We see Irime working on some delicate glass-blowing, and various other craftsmen diligently working away. Melkor enters the workspace, offering praise and commendation to everyone. When he gets to Nerdanel, he offers advice on her current project, making it clear that they have spoken many times before and are comfortable with each other. Melkor asks about Fëanor's current project, and Nerdanel says he's working with light. Melkor seems enthusiastic about this, saying that light is a great medium to work in. Melkor asks what materials he's using, and makes a few suggestions of different materials that will work.

Giving Curufin a role in this would be easy enough. In the first scene, Finwe can ask for more of the stones to give to the Teleri. Feanor can dismissively tell him to have Curufin make them. It is simple enough.

In the second scene, Curufin could be making palantiri amongst the craftsmen. How do we feel about this?

 

[Ange1e4e5]

Ok, so in our telling of the making of the Palantiri, we did not actually _show_ Feanor making them, but we did show that he had made them. In S02E08, we show Feanor showing one of the stones to Aule in one scene, likely a prototype.

In S02E09, we have this scene:



Followed by this one:




Giving Curufin a role in this would be easy enough. In the first scene, Finwe can ask for more of the stones to give to the Teleri. Feanor can dismissively tell him to have Curufin make them. It is simple enough.

In the second scene, Curufin could be making palantiri amongst the craftsmen. How do we feel about this?

Would be interesting; would we see how they’re made?

 

[Nicholas Palazzo]

Would be interesting; would we see how they’re made?

Likely not the entire process, but we would get a peek into it for several seconds at least.

 

[Nicholas Palazzo]

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but aren't there two distinct... classes(?) of palantir?

Like the Osgiliath stone was a master stone or something? Am I imagining that?

Maybe that's an in for Curufin to work on the lesser stones.

You are definitely not imagining this. There is a master stone in Avallone, and there was a chief stone at Amon Sul , and another in Osgiliath. So there is some manner of hierarchy.

 

[Faelivrin]

There has to be a good reason Curufin can't make them in Middle-earth. Possibilities:

1. He can't repeat the feat. I think this would have to mean he only ever made them on one occasion, since that seems to be how unrepeatable works of superlative craft work in Arda.
2. He helped Feanor make them, and can't do it by himself.
3. He needed some material that only exists in Aman. I don't know why, but this somehow feels like a cop-out to me.