The snow on Caradras

Ragnelle

Member
I have so far listened up to session 260, and trough much of the time we have spent in the the snow, I have had this nagging question. Why is it presumed that the newfallen snow is powder snow?

Now part of this might be down to translation. I am Norwegian, and when we talk of "puddersnø" (the direct translation would be powder snow), this is a very light kind of snow, most often found as newly fallen snow when it is relativity cold. But it will rarely be of that consistency all the way through when it has come in the volume Tolkien describes - the lower and middle parts of the snow would have set a bit more and become more compact, if nothing else, then from the weight of the snow. Not that it would make it easier to walk through, mind.

I also am not convinced that it has had to be that cold for the snow to be powder. Only this spring we have had rather large volumes of snow falling while the temperature on the ground was just above freezing. That gave wet, heavy snow, which was difficult to get around in, and very hard to shift by hand - even with a showel.

May be on refection, what I was reaction to, was the implication that powder snow is the worst case scenario. I can think of much worse kind of snow which would make it impossible for Even Boromir and Aragorn to force their way through. Like heavy, wet almost slush, or rotten snow you just fall right through. Powder actually makes it more possible to burrow through without spades.

So, does "powder snow" denote a different type of snow than what I think of when I hear it?

I have btw never been able to read this chapter without thinking of the rules of what to remember when skiing in the mountains that we used to learn. At least some of them: "Listen to the weather forecast." "Turn back in time - there is no shame in going back." And "Make a snowcave if caught in a blizzard." They would indeed have had more need of spades than much else when attempting to crossing a mountain pass in winter: Making snowcaves would have helped them survive the storm better than the fire.

And they should have brought skies. Legolas must have some invisible ones. (Okay, so I am very Norwegian when it comes to snow :p)
 
does "powder snow" denote a different type of snow than what I think of when I hear it?
I'm afraid that "powder snow" in English probably means many different kinds of snow in different contexts. Here, near the Great Lakes, the powder we get most often is lake-effect snow, which does not require particularly low temperatures and falls as big clumps of many large snowflakes. Sometimes the clumps can be almost the size of a golf ball! They are mostly empty space, though, and very light. Less frequently, we get lower temperatures with individual flakes to make powder snow.

I suppose the focus here on powder snow is connected to Legolas' walking on top of the drifts: powder is a worst-case scenario for such a feat. But I agree that a blizzard with strong winds and heavy snowfall is likely to pack the drifts pretty densely, making the snow heavier and much harder to wade through.
 
Men akkurat det regelen har vel blitt forandret nå nylig vil jeg mene.
:)
Nei, den er den samme. Selv om jeg har tenkte like mye på "Grav deg inn i snøen om nødvedig" (Den er forandret.)

Jim: thanks for explaining. I was very confused about the powder snow. The first sounds more like something we would call hail (haggel). While it is usually though of as more icy balls, we sometimes get the smaller lighter version. I guess it might be what we refert to as "kornete" (grain like).
 
confused about the powder snow. The first sounds more like something we would call hail (haggel). While it is usually though of as more icy balls, we sometimes get the smaller lighter version. I guess it might be what we refert to as "kornete" (grain like).
I'm still not explaining it clearly, I'm afraid.

We also get hail - icy balls usually associated with thunderstorms: generally falls in the summer, not winter.
"the smaller lighter version" we call graupel: it falls in winter when temperatures are moderate. Happens when snow falls through a warm layer of air, partially melts and sticks together in small balls which refreeze before reaching the ground.

Lake-effect snow is different.
Typically, lake-effect snow is very lightweight (that is, it has never melted since forming at high altitudes). It can be individual large flakes, but more often consists of very loose balls of several, or dozens, of individual flakes that have stuck lightly together in clumps that are mostly empty space. This makes the lightest of powder snows.

Of course, it wouldn't be lake-effect snow on Caradhras.
 
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