The Stockade

I imagine the individual family home would be much nearer to the main gate. And the storage maybe a bit further from the wall...but also closer to the gate?
 
MithLuin said:
I imagine the individual family home would be much nearer to the main gate. And the storage maybe a bit further from the wall...but also closer to the gate?
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The problem are the animals, their routes should be away from the storage area and not to near to the cliffs, don't you think? Also I assume the keepers' household would like to still have some privacy space when the stockade is full with the tribe gathering. But I will try to see if I can move them closes eithout compromising those principes - in the afternoon here (early morning now).
 
MithLuin said:
Here is a quick sketch showing the stockade, looking northeast. As depicted here, the bluffs overlooking the rivers are roughly 20' high. It is asymmetrical; no one measured a perfect triangle when designing the wall. It contains the large hall, the single family homestead (which houses 5 people at the time of its construction), a well, and space for animals, tents, and gardens.
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My initial sketch has not yet been adapted to that location, but hopefully preserves some of the ideas of keeping everything separate.
 
MithLuin said:
My initial sketch has not yet been adapted to that location, but hopefully preserves some of the ideas of keeping everything separate.
Click to expand...

Yepp, but the storage area is missing and the enclosure vary small and near the cliffs. Are you not afraid of some of the animals falling down on their way in and out? The keepers' house also not too near the gate but in the middle, the people going to the tents are going past it - e.g. making noise at night - or do I misunderstand where the gate os in your picture?
 
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MithLuin said:
My initial sketch has not yet been adapted to that location, but hopefully preserves some of the ideas of keeping everything separate.
Click to expand...

Here, the storage and keepers' house nearer the gate, there is also a quick access via the wall from the keepers' house to the gate itself.
The tents are Roman tents as there was a ready default model for those to be used in the program - so I have just inserted those. I took the biggest dimension for the hall I've found for a Norse longhouse which were 9 x 86 meters but have no idea which periods the dimension belong to as longhouses have been used in Scandinavia the since the Iron Age. I put it "in construction" on the drawing as I have no idea what kind of building it was. So - does it work now? This is not the siege situation - there would be no tents - but the conception how it has been planned to be used. So, does that work for you?

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I think the Haladin really would shine in this setting, they do something which nobody was expecting them to be able to even closely!

That is what we want right? The elves who see that will have to be shocked and surprised .
 
Haerangil said:
I think the Haladin really would shine in this setting, they do something which nobody was expecting them to be able to even closely!

That is what we want right? The elves who see that will have to be shocked and surprised .
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Especially as it is "not pretty but functional" and as such a completely un-elvish approach.
 
Still looks impressive. But elves probably would not know that kind of functionality, the way they are everything is a piece of art and everything that is not is orcish.Now if they see something that is neither they probably don't get it.
 
Haerangil said:
Still looks impressive. But elves probably would not know that kind of functionality, the way they are everything is a piece of art and everything that is not is orcish.Now if they see something that is neither they probably don't get it.
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How much are the Elves going to see the Stockade? Plus Caranthir (if he's looking at it) doesn't seem the type to care about art.

Or if Caranthir does care about how artsy it is, it'll showcase how arrogant and disdainful he is.
 
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Exactly - Caranthir may praise the bravery of the people or how they held off the orcs for so long, but he is not going to be impressed by a crude wooden stockade. He'll be dismissive, because it's not stone. Which is. . .the point.
 
MithLuin said:
Exactly - Caranthir may praise the bravery of the people or how they held off the orcs for so long, but he is not going to be impressed by a crude wooden stockade. He'll be dismissive, because it's not stone. Which is. . .the point.
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I do not think stone would be really the issue. He has to have some affinity towards wood and trees as an elf even if less so from his own character and far less than a Sindar would have. But elves would make even a simple defence wall an intricate artwork, they are not pressed by time, and not limited by lack of skill, strenght, by tiredness or even the need to sleep as much as humans do. The material world works with elves and not against them. They do not have to fight against their own nature and the natural world to accomplish anything as the humans have to.

I will work on the Stockade's wall then. I have to make it slightly higher and wider to adjust to the dimensions of the historical example. Still not very high, but the Haladin are not tall people, so it will work for them. My wall in the drawing is yet 4 m (hight) x 2 m - (which is very small) and the historic one is 5,8 m x 3 m - which is more believable. But this in the evening.
 
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So, one of our frustrations when we were looking for suitable locations was finding cliffs that were modest in size, but not totally barren on top. They would hopefully look like people lived there.

I happened to visit the Wisconsin River recently, and they have unique Cambrian limestone there in The Dells. It's quite porous, even crumbly, so naturally plenty of trees grow on top, and the cliffs don't soar too high.

Here are some images to give the idea:

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Some of the most promising locations:

One option is Witches Gulch, where a small tributary joins the Wisconsin River:
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I think the river bluffs at Witches' Gulch could work. The cliffs here are higher than we had planned, but I know they'll look smaller on camera...so there's that trade off.
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(Photos above courtesy of Tom Ehlers)
 

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A second option is Blackhawk Island. "The Narrows" here could stand in for the Ascar, with the Wisconsin River being the Gelion. The cliffs aren't as dramatic as the other site, but would certainly still be distinctive and formidable looking in places. The Island itself is uninhabited, and there would be rules about what could be disturbed there. It's possible that it would be mostly establishing shots, with the scenes shot elsewhere.

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I find Blackhawk better, more options and believable places to hide and descent down to boats if required.
 
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