Flammifer
Well-Known Member
Trying to understand Boromir’s thoughts and actions at the Council of Elrond, I thought it might be interesting to pose a series of questions about what Boromir was thinking when he stood up and began to speak. Then give my own speculative answers to those questions. Please add more questions, and your own speculative answers.
Assumptions: Let’s start by assuming some things about Boromir. I assume that Boromir is well accustomed to participating in councils and meetings, and has a very good understanding of how influence and impact work in those settings. I also assume that Boromir knows (in the light of his dream) that this council is critical, so he has been listening with hyper-acuity to everything so far, and nothing has passed him by.
Question 1: As he stands up, who does Boromir think are the most important people in the world?
1. Sauron. Sauron has the initiative. Sauron is on offence. Sauron is the most important person shaping the world right now.
2. Elrond? Up until a few minutes ago, Boromir thought that Denethor, as Sauron’s opponent was the second most important person in the world. Suddenly, however, his perspective has been challenged. Elrond was there in the War of Wrath! Elrond was right there at the Battle of the Last Alliance! Elrond has been a key opponent of Sauron for a lot longer than Denethor. Oh, and Elrond is a warrior! One of the last three standing on the slopes of Orodruin when Sauron was defeated! Boromir respects warriors. Denethor is wise (but Elrond is wiser). Denethor is not a warrior. Elrond is. Boromir is wondering whether Elrond is really the second most important person in the world.
3. Denethor. Steward of Gondor. Leader of the chief opposition to Sauron.
4. Me – Boromir. Heir to Gondor. If anything happens to Dad, it is up to me.
5. Faramir. Heir to the heir of Gondor. A good heir too. Nothing to worry about if my brother should come to power.
6. Mithrandir? Wait a minute, don’t think I didn’t catch that little play where Elrond explained my presence to Mithrandir. I thought he was useful, a source of intelligence and information. Good on lore. Faramir likes him. But, just some sort of wandering mystic. Now, I wonder. How important is Mithrandir? I also suddenly wonder if I was right to come on this quest instead of Faramir? Faramir knows Mithrandir a lot better than I do. Maybe that connection would have made Faramir a better ambassador here than Me?
7. Either Prince Imrahil or King Theoden both likely to be pretty critical in the war.
8. What about Saruman? I don’t know much about him, but Dad did advise me to steer clear of Isengard on my way north. My first thought was to head for Isengard and see if I could get directions to Imladris there. Dad said no. He didn’t really say why. How important is Saruman?
9. Frodo? “Few have ever come hither through greater peril or on an errand more urgent”, Elrond said. Probably also the ‘halfling’ out of my dream! Probably important. Wait and see.
OK, that’s my speculation on Boromir’s mindset on who are the important people, and their relative importance. He does not know anything about the Nazgul yet. He does not know Galadriel or Cirdan.
Question 2: What were Boromir’s thoughts on his vision when he first stood up? What did he hope to get from the council as answers?
1. I didn’t understand ‘The sword that was broken’ part, but I just heard Elrond say that Elendil’s sword Narsil broke beneath him when he fell. I bet that that is the broken sword! And, I heard Elrond say that Ohtar brought it here to Imladris. I bet it is still here! Elrond’s got it! Is that the weapon that will prove ‘stronger than Morgul spells’?
2. “Counsels taken stronger than Morgul-spells”, that’s what I’m here for. That’s why I came. I am about to explain that, though outnumbered, that’s not what worries me. “It was not by numbers that we were defeated. A power was there that we have not felt before.” Morgul spells! The Enemy’s superweapon! I don’t care how outnumbered we might be. We can win! But, this new power? We need a way to counter it.
3. ‘Doom?’ ‘Isildur’s Bane?’ ‘Halfling?’ OK, Isildur’s Bane is the Enemy’s Ring. And, it’s been found! I bet it is also right here in Imladris right now! Elrond’s got it! That’s clear now. Is that what will defeat the Morgul Spells, or is it the Sword? Also, I bet I know who the ‘halfling’ is, but why is he important?
Question 3: Why does Boromir stand up and address the council when he does?
1. I have some extremely important input for this council. Really, the council should hear my input before we get much further. We have heard news this morning from around the Western World. Interesting intelligence, but stuff that has happened. I come with a vision, a dream, a possibly divine or angelic message. My message is prophetic. It is prophetic about this council! It emphasizes just how important this council is. It really should be heard by the participants! Now!
2. Elrond has just given me the perfect introduction. He has been speaking about Gondor. He has come to the conclusion of a section. I won’t be rudely interrupting. Couldn’t ask for a better segue. Now’s the time!
3. OK, I was slightly irritated that Elrond seemed a bit dismissive of Gondor, it’s power and resolve. So, I can balance that a bit. But, it is not irritation on behalf of Gondor that compels me now to stand and speak. It is primarily that my vision should be told before this council moves too much further forward. Secondarily, I know how influence and impact happen in councils. To establish myself as a key influencer in the outcome, I couldn’t ask for a better opportunity. Make an intervention. Shift the agenda. Set up a position as a critical participant and potential decision maker.
Question 4: Why does Boromir phrase and structure his response the way he does? Is he arrogant (as various comments in the last class suggested)?
1. I could start, in time honored fashion, by saying, “I would like to thank Master Elrond for organizing this critical council, and all the Imladris staff for their hard work setting up the venue”, but I won’t. Way too arrogant. I could start by introducing myself; “I am Boromir, Captain of the White Tower of Minas Tirith, heir to Denethor, Steward of Gondor,” but I won’t. Also too arrogant. No, I am here to gain allies, and get help, not to alienate the crowd and piss them off.
2. So, here’s my agenda:
a) I come from Gondor, and have updated, timely and relevant information to build upon what Elrond has just been saying.
b) Gondor may not be what it once was, but we fight on! We will never surrender! We will not make deals with the Enemy. But we are worried. We could well be defeated. That would not be good for any of you.
c) Why are we worried? Not because we are outnumbered. We could beat them if that was all! No, they have a new power. We don’t know how to fight it. That’s the help we need! (And, that new information alone, should totally justify my speaking up in the council at this point.)
d) Why come here for help? Well, we had this vision, this dream. It seems to suggest that here, in Imladris, here, at this critical council, is where a counter that is ‘stronger than Morgul-spells’ will be found. That’s right. We here, in this room, are at the hinge of history. So, wake up and pay attention.
e) Oh, by the way, you needn’t worry that if we do come up with the counter here today, Gondor will ignore it. The Steward of Gondor is my dad. I can get things done in Gondor!
f) (Should I mention that I am the eldest son and heir? No. Leave them wondering whether you or your brother are the heir. Mithrandir knows, and will inform them. Better for you to stay humble.)
Please do chip in with more questions and responses or more or alternative suppositions on what Boromir is thinking.
Assumptions: Let’s start by assuming some things about Boromir. I assume that Boromir is well accustomed to participating in councils and meetings, and has a very good understanding of how influence and impact work in those settings. I also assume that Boromir knows (in the light of his dream) that this council is critical, so he has been listening with hyper-acuity to everything so far, and nothing has passed him by.
Question 1: As he stands up, who does Boromir think are the most important people in the world?
1. Sauron. Sauron has the initiative. Sauron is on offence. Sauron is the most important person shaping the world right now.
2. Elrond? Up until a few minutes ago, Boromir thought that Denethor, as Sauron’s opponent was the second most important person in the world. Suddenly, however, his perspective has been challenged. Elrond was there in the War of Wrath! Elrond was right there at the Battle of the Last Alliance! Elrond has been a key opponent of Sauron for a lot longer than Denethor. Oh, and Elrond is a warrior! One of the last three standing on the slopes of Orodruin when Sauron was defeated! Boromir respects warriors. Denethor is wise (but Elrond is wiser). Denethor is not a warrior. Elrond is. Boromir is wondering whether Elrond is really the second most important person in the world.
3. Denethor. Steward of Gondor. Leader of the chief opposition to Sauron.
4. Me – Boromir. Heir to Gondor. If anything happens to Dad, it is up to me.
5. Faramir. Heir to the heir of Gondor. A good heir too. Nothing to worry about if my brother should come to power.
6. Mithrandir? Wait a minute, don’t think I didn’t catch that little play where Elrond explained my presence to Mithrandir. I thought he was useful, a source of intelligence and information. Good on lore. Faramir likes him. But, just some sort of wandering mystic. Now, I wonder. How important is Mithrandir? I also suddenly wonder if I was right to come on this quest instead of Faramir? Faramir knows Mithrandir a lot better than I do. Maybe that connection would have made Faramir a better ambassador here than Me?
7. Either Prince Imrahil or King Theoden both likely to be pretty critical in the war.
8. What about Saruman? I don’t know much about him, but Dad did advise me to steer clear of Isengard on my way north. My first thought was to head for Isengard and see if I could get directions to Imladris there. Dad said no. He didn’t really say why. How important is Saruman?
9. Frodo? “Few have ever come hither through greater peril or on an errand more urgent”, Elrond said. Probably also the ‘halfling’ out of my dream! Probably important. Wait and see.
OK, that’s my speculation on Boromir’s mindset on who are the important people, and their relative importance. He does not know anything about the Nazgul yet. He does not know Galadriel or Cirdan.
Question 2: What were Boromir’s thoughts on his vision when he first stood up? What did he hope to get from the council as answers?
1. I didn’t understand ‘The sword that was broken’ part, but I just heard Elrond say that Elendil’s sword Narsil broke beneath him when he fell. I bet that that is the broken sword! And, I heard Elrond say that Ohtar brought it here to Imladris. I bet it is still here! Elrond’s got it! Is that the weapon that will prove ‘stronger than Morgul spells’?
2. “Counsels taken stronger than Morgul-spells”, that’s what I’m here for. That’s why I came. I am about to explain that, though outnumbered, that’s not what worries me. “It was not by numbers that we were defeated. A power was there that we have not felt before.” Morgul spells! The Enemy’s superweapon! I don’t care how outnumbered we might be. We can win! But, this new power? We need a way to counter it.
3. ‘Doom?’ ‘Isildur’s Bane?’ ‘Halfling?’ OK, Isildur’s Bane is the Enemy’s Ring. And, it’s been found! I bet it is also right here in Imladris right now! Elrond’s got it! That’s clear now. Is that what will defeat the Morgul Spells, or is it the Sword? Also, I bet I know who the ‘halfling’ is, but why is he important?
Question 3: Why does Boromir stand up and address the council when he does?
1. I have some extremely important input for this council. Really, the council should hear my input before we get much further. We have heard news this morning from around the Western World. Interesting intelligence, but stuff that has happened. I come with a vision, a dream, a possibly divine or angelic message. My message is prophetic. It is prophetic about this council! It emphasizes just how important this council is. It really should be heard by the participants! Now!
2. Elrond has just given me the perfect introduction. He has been speaking about Gondor. He has come to the conclusion of a section. I won’t be rudely interrupting. Couldn’t ask for a better segue. Now’s the time!
3. OK, I was slightly irritated that Elrond seemed a bit dismissive of Gondor, it’s power and resolve. So, I can balance that a bit. But, it is not irritation on behalf of Gondor that compels me now to stand and speak. It is primarily that my vision should be told before this council moves too much further forward. Secondarily, I know how influence and impact happen in councils. To establish myself as a key influencer in the outcome, I couldn’t ask for a better opportunity. Make an intervention. Shift the agenda. Set up a position as a critical participant and potential decision maker.
Question 4: Why does Boromir phrase and structure his response the way he does? Is he arrogant (as various comments in the last class suggested)?
1. I could start, in time honored fashion, by saying, “I would like to thank Master Elrond for organizing this critical council, and all the Imladris staff for their hard work setting up the venue”, but I won’t. Way too arrogant. I could start by introducing myself; “I am Boromir, Captain of the White Tower of Minas Tirith, heir to Denethor, Steward of Gondor,” but I won’t. Also too arrogant. No, I am here to gain allies, and get help, not to alienate the crowd and piss them off.
2. So, here’s my agenda:
a) I come from Gondor, and have updated, timely and relevant information to build upon what Elrond has just been saying.
b) Gondor may not be what it once was, but we fight on! We will never surrender! We will not make deals with the Enemy. But we are worried. We could well be defeated. That would not be good for any of you.
c) Why are we worried? Not because we are outnumbered. We could beat them if that was all! No, they have a new power. We don’t know how to fight it. That’s the help we need! (And, that new information alone, should totally justify my speaking up in the council at this point.)
d) Why come here for help? Well, we had this vision, this dream. It seems to suggest that here, in Imladris, here, at this critical council, is where a counter that is ‘stronger than Morgul-spells’ will be found. That’s right. We here, in this room, are at the hinge of history. So, wake up and pay attention.
e) Oh, by the way, you needn’t worry that if we do come up with the counter here today, Gondor will ignore it. The Steward of Gondor is my dad. I can get things done in Gondor!
f) (Should I mention that I am the eldest son and heir? No. Leave them wondering whether you or your brother are the heir. Mithrandir knows, and will inform them. Better for you to stay humble.)
Please do chip in with more questions and responses or more or alternative suppositions on what Boromir is thinking.
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